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So broken. So not worth it.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So broken. So not worth it.

wtfnonamefree's Avatar


wtfnonamefree
04.14.2012 , 05:32 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorrdan View Post
And you are going to tell us you play for fun and not rewards? does anyone even buy that bull anymore around here?
Exactly.

Rewards are nothing but means to an end.
Darth Fector
Tankasin EU | Jen'jidai
"Slippery as a greased Hutt"

RogueSatyr's Avatar


RogueSatyr
04.14.2012 , 06:04 AM | #22
The PVP gearing game is broken. I find myself spending more time making sure I get the medals instead of playing for objectives. I hope this wasn't the intention for 1.2. Sure, as a tank I can pull down my medals (thanks guard), but for many it is not that easy. Q1: Is it your intention that we should be playing to earn the medals or that we should be playing the WZ mechanics?

As it stands in 1.2, players who in good faith are playing as hard as they can in the 50 bracket are getting smoked by focus fire & better geared folks. Once the game is over they are being told by the game YOU SUCK - ZEROS FOR YOU! This leads to player anger, and hesitance to queue again. Q2: Was it your intention to tell players who play in good faith that they are "terrible players, deserve no rewards and should stop PVPing"?

There has been a lot of screaming at the PVP design team on the boards. How does this make you feel? This is the same feeling that your users are feeling every time that rewards screen comes up with ZEROS. Q3: Is the feeling you feel when reading the boards the one you wanted to create in lower skilled, lesser geared or poorly coordinated players?

You must design with clear intention of ALL the outcomes for ALL players in the system. From what I see from the pvp gearing game was laser focused on a problem (AFKers), but lost track of the design as a whole when deriving the 1.2 solution.

Sadly, it seems the problem the system is trying to solve with these changes (AFKers) is a <1% problem. I've (anecdotally) only seen 1 or 2 real AFKers inside a WZ in 130 levels of Valor on my two toons. Was it your intention to break the transition from poorly geared players to geared players in order to solve a 1% problem? a 5% problem?


What Now...
1) Stop, write down how you want users to FEEL when playing the PVP gearing game and then design it.

2) Keep lazar focused on that statement all through design and execution.

3) Play the damn game. Once a week get a new 50 populated onto a real server, with real new level 50 gear (orange with world tokens). Remember what it's like to be in this state. Play your mains, remember what it's like to be geared.


How I'd write it the "feel" statement
"PVP is swtor is awesome. Sure, I've got terrible gear RIGHT NOW, but I know if I keep at it I'll start to gear up and get some mad skills. The rewards for winning are AWESOME, but the game still rewards my time if I lose. I usually play for a few hours a night.. ok several hours. Yeah, we win more when my guild is out in force, but progression towards my uber goal isn't impossible when they are not."


Now go fix it...

Karizza's Avatar


Karizza
04.14.2012 , 06:14 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Wedwoe View Post
The only reason I played this game was for the PVP, however after the recent 1.2 changes I will not be doing so.

The irony is I have a free months subscription and you couldn't pay me to play this now.

Bring on GW2.
As a previous healer class I agree with everything you just said. Healer into moth balls. Caster into moth balls. Thirty days Diablo III soon after Guild Wars II followed by Planetside II. This game has become a melee slugfest making healers feel like training dummies. The current direction of this game is just not for me.
Sordid:

Kjempeost's Avatar


Kjempeost
04.14.2012 , 06:21 AM | #24
Currently the rate of gearup is so slow for a fresh 50 that its no point pvping at all. Watching yourself being 3-4shot by War heroes and Battlemasters is only fun for so long.. which is not long at all

Kaarsa's Avatar


Kaarsa
04.14.2012 , 06:30 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Kjempeost View Post
Currently the rate of gearup is so slow for a fresh 50 that its no point pvping at all. Watching yourself being 3-4shot by War heroes and Battlemasters is only fun for so long.. which is not long at all
I wonder where did you get from those War Heroes...

BTW, buy yourself recruit set, it will help a lot.
Official Dev info about resolve system: http://dulfy.net/2012/04/07/paxeast-q-a-day-2/
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Philar View Post
To be fair, about 98% of all PvP problems can be resolved by learning to correctly play the class you rolled.
The remaining 2% aren't going to be fixed by complaining on a forum...

AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
04.14.2012 , 06:51 AM | #26
Repeating the phrase "I play for fun" means absolutely nothing. I also play for fun. I did my Valor grind pre-1.2. I play well even after the patch. I put up numbers and get medals even when at disadvantages. I don't quit WZs. Ever. I fight. Because I can still find it fun on its own right.

But the current structure of the patch is going to stop things from being "fun". The mere existence of combat is not fun. What was fun was combat which felt competitive. With teams that had a clear means to even the gaps given enough time and sweat. Fun is warzones that are full, with full teams facing eachother in battles where tactics matter.

This is slowly eroding. Because the effect of the patch is snowballing already. I've observed it. Regardless of whether or not Jestunhi's fun comes from a sense of progress or achievement or not, plenty of people's does. They enjoy feeling like the have an avenue to remain competitive. They enjoy having their efforts matter. When I jumped into Alderaan today and saw it three capped against us, with a team lacking in numbers, I didn't retreat. I didn't give up. I jumped into combat and gave the other team hell. But that's not enough apparently, to compensate my time and effort. And the combat alone certainly was on the low end of the "fun" scale because to call it combat would be charitable at best. Even with coordinated efforts, it was a curbstomp beating. There wasn't even a sense of any attrition for the other team. That's not exciting. It's cold, sterile, and completely lopsided.

And the best part is that's only how it is now. As time goes on, the faction with the consistent groups will get the comms, get the gear, and completely outclass their opponents such that to call combat a competition would be like calling flailing you arms wildly before you drown, swimming. As that disadvantage grows, less people will queue. And there's not going to be exciting matches or fights or anything like that. There's not going to be any fun.

So, saying "I play for fun"? Yeah, fundamentally ill thought. Because the resources that make for any type of fun or exciting experience are going to tickle to a halt should the current state of things be left unchecked.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

rizBRAH's Avatar


rizBRAH
04.14.2012 , 06:58 AM | #27
Its just mind blowing that theres no debuff for leaving a wz before the end, really really basic requirement been overlooked...

tloops's Avatar


tloops
04.14.2012 , 07:04 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Kjempeost View Post
Pre 1.2 you could gear up without having to beat BM geared premades to do so.

Or winning games where you team has 5 or less with the other being 8.

Even if you didnt win you at least got some commendations out of it which gradually allowed you to gear up, now that is not the case anymore.
i agree with this...pvp is a waste of time now.republic on my server always got stomped,but at least we had an incentive to que up..now those incentives are gone,along with half the people who used to pvp.we are constantly outmaned with no hope of winning,and nothing to show for it.
TOR...the best single player game on the market

Sinrei's Avatar


Sinrei
04.14.2012 , 07:16 AM | #29
What choice do you have? Unsub. I did today. I really didn't want to but the new system is beyond a joke and even with 30 days free, I won't be logging on too much if at all. But if they revert these idiotic changes to WZs and PvP, I'll gladly throw my money at them.

The only real way to show them how much they fkd up is to unsub. Its the only thing companies understand. Blizzard is the biggest example of this. Lost nearly 2 million(?) subs and now they're throwing level 80s at people with the Scroll of Ressurection..

Gorrdan's Avatar


Gorrdan
04.14.2012 , 07:19 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by AlyxDinas View Post
Jestunhi's responses might be just about the the most asinine and pigheaded responses I've ever read on a forum. Repeating the phrase "I play for fun" means absolutely nothing. I also play for fun. I did my Valor grind pre-1.2. I play well even after the patch. I put up numbers and get medals even when at disadvantages. I don't quit WZs. Ever. I fight. Because I can still find it fun on its own right.

But the current structure of the patch is going to stop things from being "fun". The mere existence of combat is not fun. What was fun was combat which felt competitive. With teams that had a clear means to even the gaps given enough time and sweat. Fun is warzones that are full, with full teams facing eachother in battles where tactics matter.
Amen!! couldn't have said it better.