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A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

bamsmacked's Avatar


bamsmacked
04.13.2012 , 02:42 PM | #381
Quote: Originally Posted by TzachNahRood View Post
This is just bizarre logic. The fact that you cannot see the glaring contradiction in your statement shows how self-focused you are.

A healer should need a team to stay alive, but a dpser should be able to solo a healer?

Isn't true balance that 1 healer vs 1 dpser cancel each other out and either needs a team to defeat the other?

It should take two dpsers to kill a healer. And it should take a healer's teammate to come along and kill the dpser.

Any team that had a clue already had this under control and it was working fine.
The difference between a Healer and a DPS is that a DPS can die....

If a DPS doesn't have pocket heals it's dead. Even in 1v1 situations, DPS dies. Healers prevail.

Before DPS needed healers to do, you know DPS. They could be killed, 1v1 healers could not.

Healers should not be invincible and with the interrupt system being **** you cannot DPS through the heals.

Interrupt should lock out an entire tree like traditional interrupts do, that would have significantly balanced the system and no nerfs would be needed.

I'm calling for a balance and compromise. When I'm sitting here beating the piss water out of a Healer, blowing all my CDs just to interrupt it's heals and still can't kill it something is wrong. Interrupt a big heal. Force Push another heal. Stasis another Heal. Awe another heal. Interrupt another. If it's not dead by this point, it's a stalemate. I will beat this thing for 30-40k damage until a friend or foe comes along so that we can proceed to finish the healer off or finish what's left of me off.

Doxxs's Avatar


Doxxs
04.13.2012 , 02:45 PM | #382
It's like a Lifetime movie

"The Story of Why Healers are Upset: A Healer's Struggle Against 1.2."
I really enjoy being able to refer to individual players as "a Republic" or "an Empire" respectively

TzachNahRood's Avatar


TzachNahRood
04.13.2012 , 02:45 PM | #383
Quote: Originally Posted by bamsmacked View Post
The difference between a Healer and a DPS is that a DPS can die....

If a DPS doesn't have pocket heals it's dead. Even in 1v1 situations, DPS dies. Healers prevail.

Before DPS needed healers to do, you know DPS. They could be killed, 1v1 healers could not.

Healers should not be invincible and with the interrupt system being **** you cannot DPS through the heals.

Interrupt should lock out an entire tree like traditional interrupts do, that would have significantly balanced the system and no nerfs would be needed.

I'm calling for a balance and compromise. When I'm sitting here beating the piss water out of a Healer, blowing all my CDs just to interrupt it's heals and still can't kill it something is wrong. Interrupt a big heal. Force Push another heal. Stasis another Heal. Awe another heal. Interrupt another. If it's not dead by this point, it's a stalemate. I will beat this thing for 30-40k damage until a friend or foe comes along so that we can proceed to finish the healer off or finish what's left of me off.
Again your entire statement proves the point and just continues your gross contradiction. You are saying that you are mad that you cannot solo a healer and that you need a teammate to help you kill him.

SKNugget's Avatar


SKNugget
04.13.2012 , 02:50 PM | #384
Quote: Originally Posted by Doxxs View Post
It's like a Lifetime movie
Watch that channel a lot?

lol jk no-wtfbbq-takebacks

bamsmacked's Avatar


bamsmacked
04.13.2012 , 02:51 PM | #385
Quote: Originally Posted by TzachNahRood View Post
Again your entire statement proves the point and just continues your gross contradiction. You are saying that you are mad that you cannot solo a healer and that you need a teammate to help you kill him.
I'm not mad about that.

The contradiction I'm trying to point out is this.

Healers would claim that this is a team based game, yet they can run solo and survive in 1v1 situations and that team work is needed to beat them. Could DPSes ever run solo? No. And they still can't run solo. Teamwork is required for all other classes to prevail post 1.2 patch WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HEALERS.

But now that teamwork is required for healers to I dunno, stay alive and their ability to heal themselves and others at the same time has been nerfed they are upset??

If working in a proper team heals can still be very strong, I was in a warzone the day the patch was released and healers still managed to heal through our DPS because they had multiple healers.

The real issue at hand is that Healers expect to be invincible in solo encounters, and when people bring this up they scream and shout about how team work is required to take one down. But now with this patch, despite all the bad **** more teamwork is actually more required than it was before, I think this is the real issue. Healers can't survive 1v1 situations against DPSes and you know what I say?

TEAMWORK. Get your Guard to guard you. DPS can't plow through both players you know. DPSers and Tankers rely on healers to stay alive and now Healers get to rely on us to stay alive as well.

TzachNahRood's Avatar


TzachNahRood
04.13.2012 , 02:53 PM | #386
Quote: Originally Posted by bamsmacked View Post
I'm not mad about that.

The contradiction I'm trying to point out is this.

Healers would claim that this is a team based game, yet they can run solo and survive in 1v1 situations and that team work is needed to beat them. Could DPSes ever run solo? No. And they still can't run solo. Teamwork is required for all other classes to prevail post 1.2 patch WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HEALERS.

But now that teamwork is required for healers to I dunno, stay alive and their ability to heal themselves and others at the same time has been nerfed they are upset??

If working in a proper team heals can still be very strong, I was in a warzone the day the patch was released and healers still managed to heal through our DPS because they had multiple healers.

The real issue at hand is that Healers expect to be invincible in solo encounters, and when people bring this up they scream and shout about how team work is required to take one down. But now with this patch, despite all the bad **** more teamwork is actually more required than it was before, I think this is the real issue. Healers can't survive 1v1 situations against DPSes and you know what I say?

TEAMWORK. Get your Guard to guard you. DPS can't plow through both players you know.
Wow. There is obviously no use trying to teach you the meaning of logic.

"Others should need teamwork to survive. I should be able to solo anyone." Yeah. Great logical argument there.

Could you be more self-centered? lol

CompassRose's Avatar


CompassRose
04.13.2012 , 02:53 PM | #387
Quote: Originally Posted by nallard View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the mobility issue. Combat Medics are very immobile relative to the other two healing AC's and to the mechanics of the dps classes.

We don't have any reliable separation. If there is a z-axis (huttball) then we can create distance with the kb, otherwise it's not particularly good. Except for Scoundrel/Operatives all of the melee classes have either pulls or leaps to keep us engaged, as well as stuns and slows to keep us from escaping. We have one stun and a cast-time mez.

Our instant heals (the core of your argument that we are mobile) are very weak or on cooldowns. Hammer Shot is okay at topping someone off and is better than nothing if you're having ammo problems, but it won't effectively heal someone under pressure from a dps. Kolto bomb has always been more useful for the buff than for the actual healing it does. Bacta infusion is a pretty weak heal and the 17 second cd (with set bonus) means that you can't really heal while on the run. You're not going to be able to extend anyone's life with hammer shot, kolto bomb, and a medium heal every 17 seconds. And, yes, Tech Override makes one cast-time ability instant, but it's on a 2min cd.

Both scoundrels and sages have heals (or bubbles) that they can cast on the move that are a core part of their rotation. In addition they have far more cc abilities as well as escapes. Commandos are easy to catch and keep pinned in one place because we have to stand still at some point and heal either ourselves or others.

You're right that with all of our cd's available we only have to stop for 3 seconds, but what if you're under pressure? How will you escape? What if your cd's aren't up? We have small windows of mobility, but most of the time we're going to have to sit and cast something.

I think the class changes to combat medic were probably fine. What's so damaging to the ac is the change to expertise. We had to be a little bit tanky because we couldn't really escape once we were engaged. Pre-1.2 we were probably a little too tanky, but post 1.2 we melt too fast. Now a good marauder or powertech will stomp a combat medic's face in with ease. And you have no chance of getting away.

On top of all that, the changes to expertise means that burst dps exceeds burst healing by a significant margin. Given equal gear and a similar skill level, I don't believe it's possible to keep a target (or yourself) alive through burst damage. My experience yesterday certainly bore that analysis out. And before the l2p people get in, neither my nor the people I play with are bad players.
Good questions, good arguments. I'll take them a paragraph at a time:

-- We don't have any reliable seperation

NOBODY has any reliable seperation in this game. Not with the amount of roots/snares/stuns that can come from any combination of EIGHT enemy players in a warzone. If they want you to stay put, you will stay put.

Kolto bomb has always been more useful for the buff than for the actual healing it does. Bacta infusion is a pretty weak heal and the 17 second cd (with set bonus)

I've got my Bacta Infusion down to 9 seconds. Where are you getting 17 seconds from?
Kolto is a group heal you can do on the run, and that enhances the heals for any player that got it with it. It might not heal for a lot, but name another group heal that buffs subsequent heals you can make on the run for 2 ammo or the force power equivalent.

You're right that with all of our cd's available we only have to stop for 3 seconds, but what if you're under pressure? How will you escape? What if your cd's aren't up? We have small windows of mobility, but most of the time we're going to have to sit and cast something.

You're ALWAYS under pressure. You're a healer. It wouldn't be a warzone without a marauder draped on your back and your team doing nothing about it. When you move in to heal a player, you move to an area that on the fringe as much as possible, with some form of cover in case you start taking ranged damage.

If you get jumped by melee, you pull as much aggro as you can as far away from the objectives as possible while dragging out your death as much as possible.

You're going down. Because 95% of the population just can't take a healer getting away on low health. They MUST finish the job, even if it takes 3-4 of them to do it. Even if it takes 45 seconds to a minute to do it. Even if.....wait how did they just score 2 goals in Huttball so quickly? How did they plant that bomb on the door? Where did half the team go?

If they want you dead, you're dead. No matter the class, no matter the spec. The key is to make them pay for it.

It's not just about healing your teammtes. It's about getting the other team to surrender a strategic advantage for a +1 on their kill count. And the commando is perfectly positioned to do that with the Heavy Armor / mobile heals combo.

SpaceJ's Avatar


SpaceJ
04.13.2012 , 02:54 PM | #388
Either they balance around the healer having guard or they balance around the healer not having guard. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

With guard, especially if they have gear, they are unkillable. They are better tanks than the tank that put the guard on them. This is obviously not a good situation. Without guard, they can die easily.

Even ignoring this obvious issue, which DPS class do you balance the healers ability to 'tank' through the damage around? The highest or the lowest? If it's the highest, the lower DPS classes have zero chance. If it's the lowest, healers will complain that any DPS trumps them.

Give the changes some actual time to settle in, give yourself the chance to relearn your class, and you might discover some goodness there.

For the record I play a Bounty Hunter Mercenary healer, as my signature indicates, and I will tell you that BH Merc needed the nerf stick badly. I never went above even 10% heat on my healer going full-out on heals. This is obviously only one of the three healing classes opinion, but it's what I think.

If you don't see a problem with a tank/healer combination being 'god like', using your own words, than I can't do much for your opinion.
Spacejew - HoG Server
Gargamel 50 Immortal Warrior
Vanir 50 Merc Medic

bamsmacked's Avatar


bamsmacked
04.13.2012 , 02:57 PM | #389
Quote: Originally Posted by TzachNahRood View Post
Wow. There is obviously no use trying to teach you the meaning of logic.

Others should need teamwork to survive. I should be able to solo anyone. Yeah. Great logical argument there.

Could you be more self-centered? lol
Jesus Christ. You must not be comprehending what I just said????????????

A DPS CAN DIE. I die all the time! I DIE!!! I DIE CONSTANTLY! I COULD BE KILLED IN 1 V 1 SITUATIONS!! Healers could not!!

How is that teamwork? HOW IS THAT TEAMWORK?

I rely on heals and tanks to stay alive, healers rely on nothing to stay alive? How IS THAT TEAMWORK the supposed choir of HEALERS have been PREACHING?

If TEAMWORK is their THING then they should LOVE this PATCH SINCE TEAMWORK IS EVEN MORE REQUIRED FOR THEM TO STAY ALIVE!

Post 1.2 patch what did I need to STAY ALIVE AND EFFECTIVELY DPS? Tanks and Heals. Teamwork.

What did a Sage healer need? NOTHING. You get close to it KNOCK BACK, force speed fights over. Or if you get lucky enough to get on it the best thing you can do is to keep it from healing others while keeping up the pressure blowing every single CD imaginable just to limit it's heals and still isn't enough to even get a dent in the healer for Dispatch.

Healers IN MY MIND are the most valuable asset to the TEAM and SHOULD BE high value targets and SHOULD require a team effort to maximize there life span - and effectiveness.

iceperson's Avatar


iceperson
04.13.2012 , 03:00 PM | #390
Quote: Originally Posted by bamsmacked View Post

A DPS CAN DIE. I die all the time! I DIE!!! I DIE CONSTANTLY! I COULD BE KILLED IN 1 V 1 SITUATIONS!! Healers could not!!
If you were dying to healers that much then there's something wrong...