The penalties for losing are TOO severe

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
The penalties for losing are TOO severe

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RobNightfall

04.13.2012 , 02:20 AM \| #41	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by xxdragonragexx Doesn't matter if people have to spend 6 months non-stop playing to get max gear. They will do it. They will do the most monotonous unfun things just for gear. If people think about it, how much fun is it to play the same 3 warzone over and over for weeks just to get battlemaster? A free 10 yr old fps game will be so much more enjoyable yet people still play the 3 warzone over and over for a long time. People will do anything just to get gear. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. Retaining players in MMO is about prolonging the gear grind first before making the game fun. With the new changes, people will spend a lot more time trying to get gear and less time thinking about the serious flaws of this game. The fact that people are more concerned about the changes to the gear grind rather than changes to abilities, healing, pvp, and balancing proves my point. MMO is all about gear progression. You don't understand what a MMO is. You must be new to the genre. See your reasoning about gear is why I, and many other like me, are unsubbing. New games are coming that eliminate the importance of gear. Once again, like it was a long time ago, PvP will return to being about skill, with PvE gear advantages neutralized in PvP encounters. PvP shouldn't be about gear, it should be about fun and skill.
Edited because the devs appear to have fixed at least 80% of the crap that was pissing me off.

Darth-Rammstein

04.13.2012 , 02:21 AM \| #42	Quote
What will happen is people from the start of the game will leave once they see that their team isn't doing too great and that if they lose that they won't get anything out of it so then after they quit alittle while later a new player will join possibly near the end of the game and if they don't quickly scrounge up medals in the remaining time they will get nothing at all. Joining a losing game in progress was already an unpleasant experience to begin with, they just made it ten times worse.
Belgoth's Beacon ----> The Fatman ----> Prophecy of the Five ----> The Ebon Hawk http://www.swtor.com/r/RC8V8V New and Old players welcome to use my referral for rewards, much appreciated.

Adzzy

04.13.2012 , 02:26 AM \| #43	Quote
while they allow pugs vs premades, you can't punish losing this harshly. Well unless you don't see the endgame of that, where randoms just stop queueing (which has killed a lot of pvp already)
Keys are lame

davidpop

04.13.2012 , 02:30 AM \| #44	Quote
You dont get enough for winning eiher, 17medals and a wooping 80 comendations lol.....

Astarica

04.13.2012 , 02:36 AM \| #45	Quote
I was consistently getting 100 on win and 50-60 on losses. This is from just solo queueing. The most lopsided lost I had was a 300-0 on Alderaan. I didn't actually get any 'games in progress' though you were never going to get good rewards period if you joined a game that looked like 600-0 or variants.

Kanana

04.13.2012 , 02:39 AM \| #46	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by xxdragonragexx Doesn't matter if people have to spend 6 months non-stop playing to get max gear. They will do it. They will do the most monotonous unfun things just for gear. If people think about it, how much fun is it to play the same 3 warzone over and over for weeks just to get battlemaster? A free 10 yr old fps game will be so much more enjoyable yet people still play the 3 warzone over and over for a long time. People will do anything just to get gear. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. Retaining players in MMO is about prolonging the gear grind first before making the game fun. With the new changes, people will spend a lot more time trying to get gear and less time thinking about the serious flaws of this game. The fact that people are more concerned about the changes to the gear grind rather than changes to abilities, healing, pvp, and balancing proves my point. MMO is all about gear progression. You don't understand what a MMO is. You must be new to the genre. If you have to gear up to pvp, then you stop playing altogether if it takes too long. PvP is not PvE. People will simply stop pvping if it turns too much of a grind.

Shlamorel

04.13.2012 , 02:47 AM \| #47	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by DropbearSW I had 9 medals last match, and we lost, so i got 40 commendations... They punish the losing team too much, to an extent that there is NO point in hanging around if you know you're not going to win... I'm not saying the current system doesn't need tweaking... in fact, I don't like the current way losers of warzones are punished. But let me ask you something, and please know my question is specific to the text i have quoted from you. In other words, I'm agreeing with you that it punishes people too harshly - but I disagree that you say there's "no point to stick around" in a losing warzone (assuming you started from the beginning of the match). In this scenario you give, you have two options: 1.) Stick it out 'til the end and get your 40 commedations from medals (even if you lose) or 2.) Leave, get 0 commedations and try another warzone. Now, if these are the only two options you have, how does the system encourage people to leave? Leaving is a worse penalty than staying. Let's dissect how the two options would unfold. Option 1 - if you leave because you're losing, you just gave up time but get 0 commedations. Sure, you can get into another warzone, but you aren't guranteed to win the next one either. This means you could either end up doing two half-warzones and getting 0 commedations (quit both), doing 1 and a half warzones and getting 40 commedations (quit 1st, lose 2nd but stay), or a maximum of 100 commedations for doing 2 full warzones (quit 1st, win 2nd). Option 2- if you stick it out (whether you keep trying to make a comeback or you sit in a corner to speed up the loss), you should get 40 commedations minimum from medals. Then, you queue for another warzone. This means you should end up with a minimum of 80 commedations (if you lose, but stay, in both), or a maximum of roughly, what, about 140 commedations (if you win the 2nd one and lose the first one). So... here's some interesting data. (Please click the spoiler tag at bottom of post to see the math involved) Guranteed minimum comms per minute if you don't quit warzones = 4 comms per minute Guranteed minimum comms per minute if you quit 1st match = 0 comms per minute Max comms per minute if you don't quit warzones = 10 comms per minute Max comms per minute if you quit 1st match: 7.69 comms per minute In conclusion you are going to make more commedations per minute by staying in certain-loss warzones than you would if you quit the certain-loss warzones. See spoiler tag below for the related math. Spoiler Here's a more simplified way to understand all possible outcomes before delving into the numbers themselves 1. Option 1 (leaving the warzone because you're losing) 1a. end up with 0 commedations after doing your 1 and a half warzones (if you also lose the 2nd one) 2a. end up with 40 commedations after the the two warzones (if you win the 2nd one) 2. Option 2 (stay in the warzone you're losing) 2a. End up with a minimum of 80 commedations after doing 2 full warzones (if you lose both) 2b. End up with at least approximately 100-140 warzone commedations after doing 2 full warzones (lose 1st, win 2nd) 2c. End up with 200+ commedations for two full warzones. (if you somehow come out with a win in the first one and win the 2nd one - small chance, but possible). Commedations per minute math (this data is based on the assumption that one quits 3 minutes into the game, and that full warzones that one does not quit last a minimum of 10 minutes.) quit both = 0 commedations for 6 minutes of time = 0 comms per minute quit 1st, lose second = 40 commedations for 13 minutes of time = 3.08 comms per minute quit 1st, win second = 100 commedations for 13 minutes of time = 7.69 comms per minute stick 1st out (lose), lose 2nd = 80 commedations for 20 minutes of time. = 4 comms per minute stick 1st out (lose), win 2nd = 140+ commedations for 20 minutes of time = 7 comms per minute stick 1st out (surprise win), win 2nd = 200+ commedations for 20 minutes of time = 10 comms per minute
Shlamorel Sta'raeth - Jedi Seer Dragonbrand ------------ I vow to try and respond in a constructive and positive manner

Magyarian

04.13.2012 , 02:48 AM \| #48	Quote
Sorry, not reading the wall of text that pro and con has written to put there agenda forward. I rarely post because this is all the same divide and conquer nonsense and if you maybe kinda sort of offend someone who attacks you then you get penalized. However, the game is entering a make or break moment by introducing a bunch of so-called beneficial changes and "tweeks". I heard this nonsense from the Age of Conan devs and they really messed up the game. The result was even a solid community could not keep people playing. The community here is not as strong, no offense intended. Listen or don't. 1. If I join an existing game in progress as a solo, I 95/100 will lose. I not only can't make up for the deficit but others will keep dropping as well because the rewards for playing well despite being on the losing side stink. You re-balanced a solo player entering an existing game right out of the game and drop we will and have been all day like never before. 2. If I cue from a group, and we lose, at least I got to play with my friends. Here's the problem. If you don't get much for the effort because you re-balanced the attacks and defenses so that we get burned down in 4 seconds (happenned a lot all day), you really can't encourage your friends to keep trying, and especially with diminished reward returns. Games are not successful because of what the Game Director or his Devs do. They are successful because the community sustains them. Rational people cannot be asked to play and be 4 shotted by some and not rewarded for playing well. I started this game a little under 3 months ago, am 4 pieces shy of a full set of battlle master gear, a war hero rank, and have my share of great victories and serious fun times regardless of victory. I have done most of this as a solo player and really enjoyed the PvP in this game. Many consider me a really good player on my server and many do not want to fight me 1 on 1. Today, I have only won only 1 WZ and acquired a couple hundred tokens. Only 1 win no matter which field or which time today. Today has been perhaps the least enjoyable day in the game. Not because I can't win but because of the combination of what I have discussed above. It is the accumulation of mistakes that makes this part of the 1.2 update fail sauce. Roll back the class changes and rewards and rethink your "Tweeks" please.

Adzzy

04.13.2012 , 02:52 AM \| #49	Quote
you're missing the tie breaker shlam, the daily for 3 wins is the equivalent of 4 wins. A lot of people only have/want to spend maybe an hour or two at most, so anything that maximizes win potential regardless of actual commendations will be the preference. It's exactly the same effect that occurred prior to wz completions being part of the ilum daily.
Keys are lame

Shlamorel

04.13.2012 , 02:55 AM \| #50	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Magyarian Sorry, not reading the wall of text that pro and con has written to put there agenda forward. I rarely post because this is all the same divide and conquer nonsense and if you maybe kinda sort of offend someone who attacks you then you get penalized. However, the game is entering a make or break moment by introducing a bunch of so-called beneficial changes and "tweeks". I heard this nonsense from the Age of Conan devs and they really messed up the game. The result was even a solid community could not keep people playing. The community here is not as strong, no offense intended. Listen or don't. 1. If I join an existing game in progress as a solo, I 95/100 will lose. I not only can't make up for the deficit but others will keep dropping as well because the rewards for playing well despite being on the losing side stink. You re-balanced a solo player entering an existing game right out of the game and drop we will and have been all day like never before. 2. If I cue from a group, and we lose, at least I got to play with my friends. Here's the problem. If you don't get much for the effort because you re-balanced the attacks and defenses so that we get burned down in 4 seconds (happenned a lot all day), you really can't encourage your friends to keep trying, and especially with diminished reward returns. Games are not successful because of what the Game Director or his Devs do. They are successful because the community sustains them. Rational people cannot be asked to play and be 4 shotted by some and not rewarded for playing well. I started this game a little under 3 months ago, am 4 pieces shy of a full set of battlle master gear, a war hero rank, and have my share of great victories and serious fun times regardless of victory. I have done most of this as a solo player and really enjoyed the PvP in this game. Many consider me a really good player on my server and many do not want to fight me 1 on 1. Today, I have only won only 1 WZ and acquired a couple hundred tokens. Only 1 win no matter which field or which time today. Today has been perhaps the least enjoyable day in the game. Not because I can't win but because of the combination of what I have discussed above. It is the accumulation of mistakes that makes this part of the 1.2 update fail sauce. Roll back the class changes and rewards and rethink your "Tweeks" please. Quote: Originally Posted by Magyarian Sorry, not reading the wall of text Hehe, how ironic.
Shlamorel Sta'raeth - Jedi Seer Dragonbrand ------------ I vow to try and respond in a constructive and positive manner

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