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Why is there a DS/LS system at all?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why is there a DS/LS system at all?

FigeroMentel's Avatar


FigeroMentel
04.12.2012 , 05:05 AM | #61
The whole point of the DS/LS system is that your character's affiliation does not determine his or her destiny - That both sides are capable of good and bad and that it is our actions and not our side in a conflict that makes us dark or light.

An Inquisitor can treat his foes with mercy just as a Jedi can be a ruthless jerk. The side you are on is secondary.

I'd also like to contest the idea that The Repiblic are the "good guys" in this whole thing. Indeed, the story writers seem to have gone out of their way to show their dark side. So far, most of the evil in this whole conflict has been done in the name of peace and understanding. Ugly deeds wrapped in a colorful lie are not the same as doing the right thing.

Aelther's Avatar


Aelther
04.12.2012 , 05:09 AM | #62
Everything's fine with DS/LS system except that it currently discriminates neutral players. Give those poor smuggler a neutral morality vendor, BioWare!

Clonedzero's Avatar


Clonedzero
04.12.2012 , 05:13 AM | #63
nothing in the sith code says you have to be an evil jerk. sure its all about strength and power, and using your emotions but it doesnt say what you should do with it. granted most sith turn into power hungry sociopaths but thats not the point.

same could be said for the jedi code, sure its alittle more specific but its still very vague.

personally i'm playing a light side sith. i find it VASTLY more interesting than being darkside. "but you don't get all the cool murdering scenes". who cares? my sith actually has real motivations beyond "ima get powerful lolz". he has value, honor and a unique perspective of the sith code. he's more than just another generic evil violent sociopath sith like every other darkside sith is.

same with being a "dark jedi". playing a jedi who's falling out the whole being at peace concept. makes for a more interesting experience when you're not whats expected of you.

FigeroMentel's Avatar


FigeroMentel
04.12.2012 , 05:15 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Clonedzero View Post
nothing in the sith code says you have to be an evil jerk. sure its all about strength and power, and using your emotions but it doesnt say what you should do with it. granted most sith turn into power hungry sociopaths but thats not the point.

same could be said for the jedi code, sure its alittle more specific but its still very vague.

personally i'm playing a light side sith. i find it VASTLY more interesting than being darkside. "but you don't get all the cool murdering scenes". who cares? my sith actually has real motivations beyond "ima get powerful lolz". he has value, honor and a unique perspective of the sith code. he's more than just another generic evil violent sociopath sith like every other darkside sith is.

same with being a "dark jedi". playing a jedi who's falling out the whole being at peace concept. makes for a more interesting experience when you're not whats expected of you.
Agreed. I am playing a light side inquisitor who believes that The Empire needs to clean some of its more powerful members out in order to send it on the right path.

And yes, a lot of it comes down to interpretation of the Sith or Jedi codes. In fact, that's a big part of the inquisitor's storyline with Ashara.

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
04.12.2012 , 05:25 AM | #65
This is a post from jorander he is someone that knows a lot about the background of the sith and has read the jedi handbooks and the book of the sith etc. Some of you may know him. Here is what he said I think it applies to this topic.

Post starts

Sith philosophy can easily be understood as one of self-validation through personal strength, when one examines their teachings, apart from the code, then looks at the code after the fact. Since we don't really have a documented Sith handbook (that will be coming out in about a month) all we can do is extrapolate based on presented ideas and actions.

The first practitioners of the dark side sought the power of what was then called, "Bogan," for the purpose of gaining immortality. Later outcast dark Jedi melded with the Sith species to form the Sith empire. From here we can begin to see a common thread between the various Sith that appear throughout the setting. They believe the Jedi teachings are too limited, because they don't allow access to a certain aspect of the Force. They are always seeking more power.

They believe that the path to the power of the Force lies through strong emotions, which we know is how one accesses the dark side, which many of them teach to be the "true nature," of the Force, characterizing the "light side," as nothing more than the Force restrained, and in a sense they are right. They also believe that the strong rule and survive (which, in the eyes of the Sith, are arguably one and the same) while the weak serve and die.

We know that, according to many Sith masters, including several of the strongest in the setting, that if one is to use the dark side, one is bound to serve the dark side. Power, but at a cost. Interesting, we begin to see what could be considered a contradiction, the strong rule/live, weak serve/die, but here, we see the Sith admitting to serving the dark side, so they can be strong. This is not a contradiction, this is a progression, from a place of weakness, to a place of strength.

For a Sith, mastery of the dark side, is to, at the same time, be consumed, and in control. Once one's weakness is consumed by darkness, one can draw on the strength of the dark side. (Peace is a lie, there is only passion, through passion, I gain strength, through strength, I gain power.) Power, is the ultimate goal of the Sith. But wait, isn't there more to the Sith code? Didn't Palpatine aspire to more than just being really strong? Well, in his own way, no, he didn't, and that is covered by the Sith code.

The goal of the Sith is power, we see that is all they are ever working toward. First and foremost, their goal is to be strong, and this is again covered by Darth Revan and Darth Bane, when they say that to gain the full strength of the dark side, one must seek power, "for power's sake." So then, why does the code say, "through power, I gain victory?" It is commonly thought, that the Sith use the power mentioned, to achieve some kind of victory, be it victory over enemies, victory over oneself, victory over...take your pick. Well, the answer is in the actions and presented teachings of the Sith. One must seek power, for power's sake. Power is the goal. Achievement of power, is the condition for victory. It is in the achievement of power that victory is met, "through power, I gain victory." The next two lines of course, fall into place nicely from there. In meeting the conditions for victory, they are made all-powerful through the Force.

Once one completely and totally understands the mechanics of the dark side, and their relation to Sith philosophy, it becomes quite apparent that the ultimate end of the progression of the darksider, is the complete and total annihilation of all life everywhere. Kudos to Malgus for figuring that out. But he is still dumb about other things.

Post ends here.


As the sith inquisitor said when an npc asked why did you do this horrible action to get more power. The sith inquisitor said "Power is its own purpose". Sith are evil plus doing evil things as a dark side force user makes you stronger in the dark side. Since the dark side feeds and grows on destruction, suffering and all the other negative things.

Hence why kriea gives the exile the option to murder your companions. Kriea says "If she does she will become stronger for it and if she releases them she will be weaker" she says something along those lines.

I think people are forgeting that LS sith in the sith order are hunted down and destroyed right? The sith warrior also approves of jaesa LS sith witch hunts. Remember the sith order is a religion based around the dark side to the sith that follows all the sith teachings to the letter LS sith are heretics that are no longer pure and need to be purged.

What do you think will happen if your LS sith walked into the sith academy and told everyone that they are light side? Take a guess.
You have seen it, you have felt it within you as you have traveled with me. The growing anger, the rage, and the power it brings. Yet the power does not build without struggle. Through small cruelties greater ones are born. Kriea/Darth Traya
Dark side eye topic make your voice heard if you want canon movie sith eyes!

Elkirin's Avatar


Elkirin
04.12.2012 , 05:27 AM | #66
Mostly I agree with the well thought out posters....


BUT

The point being overlooked is that the game designers have not IMHO, been 100% accurate in which decisions they choose as light or dark.

I would submit that there have been many choices ingame, flagged as lightside gains, that were inherently evil. Many cause great harm but serve republic, or self interests rather than any pure form of "right".

In one case the Lightside choice was to not allow a new lifeform to naturally rise to sentience.

100% against the Star Trek universe prime directive, Kirk would shoot you down as the evil dog you are if you tried that in his timelines.

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
04.12.2012 , 05:35 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Elkirin View Post
Mostly I agree with the well thought out posters....


BUT

The point being overlooked is that the game designers have not IMHO, been 100% accurate in which decisions they choose as light or dark.

I would submit that there have been many choices ingame, flagged as lightside gains, that were inherently evil. Many cause great harm but serve republic, or self interests rather than any pure form of "right".

In one case the Lightside choice was to not allow a new lifeform to naturally rise to sentience.

100% against the Star Trek universe prime directive, Kirk would shoot you down as the evil dog you are if you tried that in his timelines.
Oh I agree there is many times when playing the game when I see the light side option as a dark side option for example killing the slaves quickly instead of slowly. Thats still dark side the true light side option of that quest is to reject the quest all together.
You have seen it, you have felt it within you as you have traveled with me. The growing anger, the rage, and the power it brings. Yet the power does not build without struggle. Through small cruelties greater ones are born. Kriea/Darth Traya
Dark side eye topic make your voice heard if you want canon movie sith eyes!

FigeroMentel's Avatar


FigeroMentel
04.12.2012 , 05:37 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Elkirin View Post
Mostly I agree with the well thought out posters....


BUT

The point being overlooked is that the game designers have not IMHO, been 100% accurate in which decisions they choose as light or dark.

I would submit that there have been many choices ingame, flagged as lightside gains, that were inherently evil. Many cause great harm but serve republic, or self interests rather than any pure form of "right".

In one case the Lightside choice was to not allow a new lifeform to naturally rise to sentience.

100% against the Star Trek universe prime directive, Kirk would shoot you down as the evil dog you are if you tried that in his timelines.
That is true, though that is the problem with only having light and dark choices (in fairness, they often give you two different light or dark choices with varrying degrees of LS or DS points), since very often good or evil is in the eye of the beholder. Hell, sometimes you just can't avoid either going dark or going light simply because it is the only sane course of action in a given situation.