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Who Swtor was made for.


xorcist's Avatar


xorcist
04.09.2012 , 10:03 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDetonate View Post
I posted this in peace. A simple nudge at the more vocal players that are dissatisfied with the content or difficulty ramping. Please don't assume to know my playtime or that I play this game 24 hours a day. As i said in my OP, assumptions, more often than not, fail the assumer.
its not an assumption. A main character and a bunch of alts to level 50 by this point in time is many many hours of game play. Reaching a very high legacy level? Then yes, sleep is good. In the OP, it reads that it has much time invested in the game. If I am in error, you are welcome to prove me wrong. You may submit a screenshot with total hours of game time as proof. Seriously. There is no MMORPG out there that can keep up to the rate in which some of you consume content. Just not possible. I seriously don't believe that nightmare mode is easy peasy for your group. I do believe you are asking for a 40 man operation that drops 2 pieces of gear so it is a status symbol and extremely rare to be seen among other players. Nothing wrong with the difficulty level there is now. It doesn't need to be ramped up. That isn't the problem. Investing too much time is however.
"There is no calamity greater than lavish desires....
And there is no greater disaster than greed
."

VegaPhone's Avatar


VegaPhone
04.09.2012 , 10:04 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Enkenon View Post
In the end being hardcore does not necessarily mean you got a better game.
Making content impossibly hard is easy but making good content is not.
I believe that as the game grows we'll get harder content but what I
don't want and what I'm really tired of from other games is to get the impossible
"have to grind and raid for years" stuff.
Thats what MMOs are all about. Years and years of lvling. The good thing if you have a lvl 50, with the next bracket of lvls you have the next extra lvls to do instead of starting the game from the beginning.

That is part of the attraction of an MMO and the continuation of more lvls, and seeing the a development of that.

Also not joining the game after 3 expansions and having to play for 1000 hours to reach end game like some old MMOs with several years of development.

Tahana's Avatar


Tahana
04.09.2012 , 10:06 AM | #43
[QUOTE=DarthDetonate;Basically we the minority, the hardcore few will never change the aims of this game and would be silly to even try to. Accept What the game is, then evaluate if it is for you. Anything more is just trying to change something that was obviously not meant for your play style.[/QUOTE]

So can I ask you this.. As an ex-hardcore player (life and starting a business have taken precedence), what is wrong with playing the game for what it is intended?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to
what lies within us. - Ralph Waldo Emerson -

DarthDetonate's Avatar


DarthDetonate
04.09.2012 , 10:07 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
I agree with the OP that the current state of SWTOR is NOT targeted at the small percentage minority of players that are looking for very difficult challenges that require coordinated groups spending lots of time working together to overcome.

I find the idea that the content that has been released as 'hard' or 'nightmare' is tuned for this demographic to be laughable. It isn't hard, nor a challenge for players that have grown up on MMOs and have completed the most difficult content in the most difficult games.

It is instead designed for the average gamer, and the average gamer has been very successful against this content.

Which isn't to say it is a bad game or a game I don't find entertaining, but rather like the OP, I understand this isn't where I'm going to go for really difficult raiding content.

And while releasing the game with everything tuned for the average masses makes good business sense, I feel the designers have set themselves up for a very bumpy ride the next couple of patches.

Many players who wanted this to be their new hard raiding game have moved on, and it isn't clear they will come back. Meanwhile the average players have been able to complete content labeled 'hard' and 'nightmare' and feel that this is their game.

So what happens when the designers start making 'hard mode' actually hard and 'nightmare mode' something that only the most dedicated players in organized guilds can complete?

Will they be able to get the players who wanted this level of challenge come back to consume the new 'hard' and 'nightmare' content?

Will the players who have completed 'hard' and 'nightmare' when it was easy continue to have success, or will they get frustrated with the difficulty?

And for a preview of this, just look at the posts whining about the healing nerfs and medpack changes coming in 1.2, and this is before anyone gets a chance to see if the new content is more difficult than current content.

Heck many of the post already have some variant of 'I am a hard / nightmare raider and with these changes the content will be impossible'.

I don't envy the balancing act the developers will have to perform to keep from alienating various segments of the games population as they move forward.

In fact, if I were them I'd just focus on several broad segments and not try to please everyone, especially the small niches.

Very well stated and full of interesting and valuable questions (to the player base and the devs) as the game matures post 1.2

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
04.09.2012 , 10:10 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by HeavensAgent View Post
There have actually been several, but you make a good point. Those titles that do focus on hardcore PvP, specifically, either don't last long or subsist on a small player community over their lifespan. Developers have to balance focus on hardcore content with focus on the desires of other player demographics targeted by the game.
I've seen you say that repeatedly, but I don't believe it's true.

What are the examples of these games?

It can't be DAoC because for it's time it had decent subscribers number (2nd highest Western MMO at the time I believe), and is still going now.

There have been a few flawed ones, but no more (and in fact many less) than the failed PvE MMORPGs over the same period.

Even Warhammer Online doesn't really count, because it's development was stopped before it was even released and the budget massively cut. If WAR had been released as 1.3.6 rather than 1.0 it would have been a much more successful game, it wasn't the RvR that killed it, it was the flaws and lack of development budget/being released far too early.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

DarthDetonate's Avatar


DarthDetonate
04.09.2012 , 10:11 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Tahana View Post
So can I ask you this.. As an ex-hardcore player (life and starting a business have taken precedence), what is wrong with playing the game for what it is intended?
Absolutely nothing sir. Again, this post was aimed am my more vocal HC brethren wanting something I don't believe was intended (at least for now) as evidenced By the SWTOR Panel discussion.

Qoojo's Avatar


Qoojo
04.09.2012 , 10:12 AM | #47
My definition of hardcore is one where the person plays far too long and whines that there is not enough content to support their no life constant playing. I stereotype them as late teens and 20s kids with nothing better to do. So I don't really care if a game caters to them or not.


This post is Wookie approved and
IEEE 9000 Ewok tested

SableShadow's Avatar


SableShadow
04.09.2012 , 10:14 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by MMornard View Post
It's the Pareto principle in action
Well...since the Pareto Principle, the "80/20 rule", would in this case mean "80% of revenue comes from 20% of the player base" I don't think citing it strengthens your points.

I'm not sure it would even apply under this pricing model, though I could be wrong.

What you're saying is "volume is volume".

VegaPhone's Avatar


VegaPhone
04.09.2012 , 10:16 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDetonate View Post
Very well stated and full of interesting and valuable questions (to the player base and the devs) as the game matures post 1.2
Except if the game is designed for casuals then they failed.

A casual will slowly get to lvl 50, then most likely only have a few hours to play over a week.

So raids, FP, and other content which takes several hours in one sitting is piontless. So raids and ops are for hardcore players.

The casuals will want something easy to do, and takes a little while. Thats why mini games, and warzones should be in this game. If this game was properly designed for casuals it would have a lot of mini games as endgame and a lot more warzones.

The casuals can still play story mode OPs or whatever because even though the fights can take a while they would be easy enough to complete one phase in a small amount of time... however, there is rarely a casual guild that will organize a raid which takes an hour to meet up to only play for an hour... so again raids/ops are not for casuals.

So if they want to balance thier 300 million management better for thier target market then they need more end game which is more accessible for casual players.

Also casual players who roll alts will want the legacy 1.2 to be affordable for them. So rolling an alt might be an attraction for casuals but to reach an endgame they cant play is pointless.

So failed design by BW. The end game is not for casuals. The game is a bastardization of casual lvling, with hardcore ops/raids, and some sprinkling of mini games (space combat) with a few warzones... and they say their target market is casuals... its a sloppy mess and they need more actual casual content which even the hardcore players can play as well. YAY!

Dayln's Avatar


Dayln
04.09.2012 , 10:18 AM | #50
In an MMO

Every player, regardless if they log in once a week, or for 12 hours a day, generates the same amount of income for the game, however the one logging in for 12 hours a day certainly takes up more resources for the same income they provide.

As the vast, and I do mean VAST majority of players are casual, any MMO that did not cater to that audience is committing suicide, unless they are a niche game ( as has been mentioned as EVE is ) who isn’t in contention as a major MMO
I have a bad feeling about this