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Female's being called sir..??

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Female's being called sir..??

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
04.08.2012 , 10:18 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Demarco View Post
This has no bearing on this topic but it is a true story...

In 1982 I was in basic training at Lackland AFB. My Squadleader was trying to get us to a medical center get some kind of shots and we got lost.

We ran into a female Captain who just started chewing my squadleader out for not being able to read a simple street map. He got scared and kept calling her "Sir". "Yes Sir!"... "No Sir!" ... We are lost Sir!"

She went totally ballistic, "Do I look like a man to you airmen??" "Have you forgotten what a female looks like??" And he says..."NO SIR!" ... What a scene.

So the military at thet time anyway was definately gender specific in the way you address superiors. I don't know if it has changed recently but back then you certainly didn't call a female "Sir"

The funniest thing about this was when we finally got back to our barracks that day, there was a stack of pin-up posters on his bunk with a note saying this is a female.... HA HA HA!
It's still like that. I've seen a few people get snapped at at BMT when I was there in 06 for doing the same thing. Regardless this is the exception with the US Military. Most militaries refer to all officers as sir.

FigeroMentel's Avatar


FigeroMentel
04.08.2012 , 10:49 PM | #92
All officers are properly addressed as 'Sir' and 'Mister.' All civilians are also refered to as 'sir' while you are in uniform.

TheLordMaster's Avatar


TheLordMaster
04.08.2012 , 11:00 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLonelyTusken View Post
No they are not.
Precisely no they are not. They are addressed as ma'am.
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Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
04.08.2012 , 11:02 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinemetu View Post
I won't rule out the possibility of exceptions, especially since I haven't seen every line of dialogue in the game, but in the vast majority of cases the PC is referred to by title. In your example, "This Jedi's heroics allowed us to do x, y, and z." I'll pay attention to facts when I see one, but so far this is just your memory vs mine and I don't know you from Elvis.

I'm not talking about being acknowledged as a different gender via flirt options (rare for females in any case) or the occasional NPC such as the one on Quesh.
In Tython Setele says "her actions" when talking to the council after you beat the flesh raiders. Go check it for yourself. I started a knight like a week ago. I already said that you are mostly referred to by your title, like Jedi, Agent etc BUT to claim no one refers to you as she or her is simply NOT TRUE. I don't give a damn how rare it is, the instances are there, making the claim that it *never* happens simply not true.

If you claim an absolute, you claim an absolute. The word absolute means absent exceptions. You can't claim an absolute, then say it has exceptions. The fact that you would claim something without going through all the class stories in of itself removes all validity from such a claim.

You might say "who cares because it's rare" is also dumb. You care because you include it in your argument. If you *don't* care, then don't make the argument in the first place.

I don't even care about the subject at all but; if even a single person realizes how to reach a conclusion in a logically coherent manner and, in the future, will formulate a coherent argument then I am happy. That means the world has that much less nonsense in it.
Those that demand respect deserve only pity.

jayray's Avatar


jayray
04.08.2012 , 11:03 PM | #95
I know in the US Navy you address female officers as Mam and male officers as Sir. In other countries it is almost always Sir.

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
04.08.2012 , 11:41 PM | #96
It's probably been said before, but in the US military you call a female officer Sir. It's even that way in Mass Effect. A female Shepard isn't called Ma'am, she's called Sir. That's because it's the way it is.

It's the same way in Star Wars. Dark LORD of the Sith whether it's a male of a female (and in fact in beta and probably now in live too, there's a thread about why there isn't Dark Lady of the Sith)

There was one exception. I forget her name, but one Sith Lord insisted on being called Dark Lady of the Sith. All her fellow Sith did as she requested, then proceeded to make fun of her behind her back.

EDIT: Ok, apparently some have had different experiences with the US military. I just know that my female military family has always told me it's proper to say Sir no matter the actual gender and in fact will get pissed if you call them ma'am... So, I guess it's a case of take a gamble and hope you get it right? I don't know...
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Sinemetu's Avatar


Sinemetu
04.08.2012 , 11:50 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Jandi View Post
In Tython Setele says "her actions" when talking to the council after you beat the flesh raiders. Go check it for yourself. I started a knight like a week ago. I already said that you are mostly referred to by your title, like Jedi, Agent etc BUT to claim no one refers to you as she or her is simply NOT TRUE. I don't give a damn how rare it is, the instances are there, making the claim that it *never* happens simply not true.

If you claim an absolute, you claim an absolute. The word absolute means absent exceptions. You can't claim an absolute, then say it has exceptions. The fact that you would claim something without going through all the class stories in of itself removes all validity from such a claim.
Oh, hey, look at what you quoted. See where I said "never"? No? Oh.

Settle down and get off my case.

Quote:
You might say "who cares because it's rare" is also dumb. You care because you include it in your argument. If you *don't* care, then don't make the argument in the first place.
No, when I'm making the case that the primary reason for not specifying gender is to save money on VA, rarity is very pertinent. Because, you know, if you have to record fewer lines of dialogue, the game costs less to make. I'm not saying it's a *entirely* bad reason (I like that they can spend more money on other content), but I am saying that "lore" is only a justification.
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ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
04.08.2012 , 11:55 PM | #98
I can count on one hand when I have been called Sir. The rest of the time it is Master Jedi on my Shadow and then when I finish a mission it is she did this which helped us in overcoming (whatever the mission might have been.)

And really it doesn't bother me at all considering it is a NPC. So what if a NPC may call me Sir a few times. I am secure enough in my Femininity that what a NPC says has no bearing on me.
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Jandi's Avatar


Jandi
04.08.2012 , 11:58 PM | #99
EDIT. Not worth the time or the effort, never mind the infractions. Believe what you wish.
Those that demand respect deserve only pity.

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
04.09.2012 , 09:16 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by AbsolutGrndZero View Post
It's probably been said before, but in the US military you call a female officer Sir. It's even that way in Mass Effect. A female Shepard isn't called Ma'am, she's called Sir. That's because it's the way it is.

It's the same way in Star Wars. Dark LORD of the Sith whether it's a male of a female (and in fact in beta and probably now in live too, there's a thread about why there isn't Dark Lady of the Sith)

There was one exception. I forget her name, but one Sith Lord insisted on being called Dark Lady of the Sith. All her fellow Sith did as she requested, then proceeded to make fun of her behind her back.

EDIT: Ok, apparently some have had different experiences with the US military. I just know that my female military family has always told me it's proper to say Sir no matter the actual gender and in fact will get pissed if you call them ma'am... So, I guess it's a case of take a gamble and hope you get it right? I don't know...
This is completely wrong. I'm not sure where your family got this from. I was in the USMC for 12 years and have read the official standards and procedures for all US service branches as well as the uniform ones like the UCMJ and it is proper and standard protocol to refer to female officers as Ma'am or their rank and a group of female officers as "ladies". No exceptions.

Other people claiming that European military personnel refer to their female officers as "Sir" is completely off from what I know. I've cross trained or trained dozens of other countries' personnel and "Ma'am" has always been the proper honorfic. I was born and lived in Europe for an early part of my life and have family in European military and they say it's SOP to call females "Ma'am".

Lumiya was the Dark Lady of the Sith you are talking about, which I referenced in my post a page ago.

Going to repost here and hopefully people pay attention this time and it settles this, from the in-game Codex:

[Codex] Republic Military Ranks:


Like all military organizations, the Republic Army and Navy rely on ranking hierarchies to maintain a clear chain of command. These ranks are listed below, from highest responsibility to lowest. Unless otherwise noted, ranks are used across service branches. Supreme Commander General (Army), Admiral (Navy) Colonel (Army), Commodore (Navy) Major (Army), Group Captain (Navy) Captain Lieutenant Ensign Sergeant (Army), Petty Officer (Navy) Corporal Specialist Private. The term "commander" may be used to describe anyone in a position of command and is not reserved for a specific rank. Due to the great diversity of service personnel present in the Republic military, regulations specify that the honorific "sir" should be used when addressing any personnel of higher rank than oneself, regardless of the species, gender or position of the addressee.
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