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STOP confusing tank specced Sins with DPS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
STOP confusing tank specced Sins with DPS
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
04.08.2012 , 03:02 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by stineo View Post
And who says operative/smugglers are pure dps? Last I checked the only pure DPS classes are sents/mauraders. They can't heal or tank, hence they are pure dps.

If you think dps is the only factor in playing a good operative/smuggler then you have no place in any warzone. You will get your butt handed to you most of the time playing like that.
Reading isn't your thing is it? Or did you pop into the wrong thread? No one has said anything about op/smug... Nowhere in my post do I even mention that class... This thread is about the assassin/shadow AC and we are talking about the tank and dps specs... Specifically the parsed numbers that cowflab posted.

btw, sentinel/marauders can heal in watchmen/annihilation spec... I average 70k-80k heals a match.

Oh, and when people say pure dps they are referring to what tree someone is in, not their class...

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
04.08.2012 , 03:07 AM | #52
Using Thrash lowers your DPS in 31/0/10 so no way the 31/0/10 parse can be anywhere near optimal, not to mention in PvP scenarios using Thrash puts you at a considerable risk compared to your staple 10m moves.

Waiting for 3 stacks of HD before using FL, which appears to be how the parse was done, also lowers your DPS significantly. Honestly, people have way too much faith in their self heals and way too little faith in their healer. Even if you try to generate 3 stacks of HD as often as possible you're not likely to get significantly higher than 100K healed on yourself. I'm sure we all have seen screenshots of healers doing 500K+, and certainly having multiple healers do 300K+ is quite common. At some levels you got to trust that the healers on your team know what they're doing, or you've already lost the match anyway.

stineo's Avatar


stineo
04.08.2012 , 03:20 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Reading isn't your thing is it? Or did you pop into the wrong thread? No one has said anything about op/smug... Nowhere in my post do I even mention that class... This thread is about the assassin/shadow AC and we are talking about the tank and dps specs... Specifically the parsed numbers that cowflab posted.

btw, sentinel/marauders can heal in watchmen/annihilation spec... I average 70k-80k heals a match.

Oh, and when people say pure dps they are referring to what tree someone is in, not their class...
Read the whole thread and some where talking about operative/smuggler dps not up to par with shadow/assassin tanks. So I guess I assumed you were of the same mindset.

And I still stand by what I said. Marauders/sentinels or even tanks with self heals don't count as heals in the classic sense and they can't tank for crap.

Nothing ruins PvP gameplay then these stupid "arena-style" warzones because the Devs will keep changing and trying to keep balance between the classes to no end just like in WoW. Skilled PvPers will find the best angles to beat the weak PvPers and then they have to nerf/buff classes and it never ends.

If you find yourself losing alot to a given class/spec, maybe just maybe you should find something else to do. Warzones in SWTOR are not meant to be fought 1v1. So why should it be adjusted like one?


A motto to live by: If you find yourself losing alot in warzones, then just stop!

rsaetann's Avatar


rsaetann
04.08.2012 , 03:21 AM | #54
I am a tank'sin and I crit for 2.5k -3.5k.
Infl specs are candy to me.

As for owning us with CC, yes but that is same for me or any class. If you know your resolve bar and CC chains then you can rip others apart 1v1.

In PvP, in pat MMOs tank PvPers have always been a *****.
In WZs, objectives are king, living longer always you to stall like which lets your team full of baddies come back to help you a few times.

stineo's Avatar


stineo
04.08.2012 , 03:28 AM | #55
Play with pre-mades and you will probably not be QQing on the forums how this class is OP or that spec needs a buff.

Kriesha's Avatar


Kriesha
04.08.2012 , 03:39 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Neoforcer View Post
Most snipers are noobs not saying you are if your a sniper. Hear me out for a sec 95% of the snipers i come in contact with on my sin first hit me with there knockback. I giggle when they do this as i force run back at them. and hit shroud just as i get there then they try to use there cc which fails then i spike and kill them LOLING the hole time.
MM spec it will more likely be like this: You get knocked back, giggle and hit force run while eating a instant crit snipe (laze - 100% crit snipe), sniper starts ambush, you arrive back and hit shroud. Sniper laughs, as ambush does not give a flying f... about shroud. You are knocked back again and Rooted - guess what, Leg Shot also ignores Shroud. Now you have choices: stand there while the sniper queues up Explosive Probe - Ambush - possible Takedown (if you are low enough from multiple crits), break the root and jog back in, still eating the same combo before you get back with a knockback from ambush or vanish and hope you have not been dotted.

MightyHalo's Avatar


MightyHalo
04.08.2012 , 03:41 AM | #57
I have a bm sniper and marauder and rolled an assassin and it's is total face roll class. I thought sorcs were easy but assassins take the cake.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
04.08.2012 , 11:26 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by stineo View Post
Read the whole thread and some where talking about operative/smuggler dps not up to par with shadow/assassin tanks. So I guess I assumed you were of the same mindset.

And I still stand by what I said. Marauders/sentinels or even tanks with self heals don't count as heals in the classic sense and they can't tank for crap.

Nothing ruins PvP gameplay then these stupid "arena-style" warzones because the Devs will keep changing and trying to keep balance between the classes to no end just like in WoW. Skilled PvPers will find the best angles to beat the weak PvPers and then they have to nerf/buff classes and it never ends.

If you find yourself losing alot to a given class/spec, maybe just maybe you should find something else to do. Warzones in SWTOR are not meant to be fought 1v1. So why should it be adjusted like one?


A motto to live by: If you find yourself losing alot in warzones, then just stop!
You make a lot of assumptions and pull posters into conversations that are not being talked about you know that?

namelless's Avatar


namelless
04.08.2012 , 11:35 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by stineo View Post
Read the whole thread and some where talking about operative/smuggler dps not up to par with shadow/assassin tanks. So I guess I assumed you were of the same mindset.
Are you seriously suggesting it makes sense for a tank specced assassin to be less than 50dps behind a dps-specced Scoundrel? I hope you realise just how ridiculous that sounds.

This is assuming the figures linked in the thread are accurate, and i believe they are.
Elagabalus- Sith Sorcerer(alt)
Commodus- Scoundrel(main)

Cowflab's Avatar


Cowflab
04.08.2012 , 12:36 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Using Thrash lowers your DPS in 31/0/10 so no way the 31/0/10 parse can be anywhere near optimal, not to mention in PvP scenarios using Thrash puts you at a considerable risk compared to your staple 10m moves.

Waiting for 3 stacks of HD before using FL, which appears to be how the parse was done, also lowers your DPS significantly. Honestly, people have way too much faith in their self heals and way too little faith in their healer. Even if you try to generate 3 stacks of HD as often as possible you're not likely to get significantly higher than 100K healed on yourself. I'm sure we all have seen screenshots of healers doing 500K+, and certainly having multiple healers do 300K+ is quite common. At some levels you got to trust that the healers on your team know what they're doing, or you've already lost the match anyway.
It really depends on the situation. When I was darkness and rolling solo I would shoot for 3xHD for the heal and using thrash for an energize proc while wither and shock come off CD was the quickest way to get there. Also, the variation in rotation that you're talking about would net you less than 100 extra dps. Although you're correct and when playing with a premade you can optimize your dps by foregoing thrash and the 3rd HD proc but it still a minimal gain when looked at overall(barring the other team stacking up and letting you get maximum damage out of wither).

If you're in the position to not use thrash and HD as intended, by all means, do it. But on average, more people queue solo and can't rely on pocket healers so the parsed rotation is in fact the most effective route.
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