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The question of the month: Will you keep your subscription up? and why?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The question of the month: Will you keep your subscription up? and why?

Gungan's Avatar


Gungan
04.07.2012 , 11:55 PM | #471
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
It's all a matter of perspective. You're viewing from a game perspective, I view it from a first-person roleplay, story perspective. After all, that's why I play and love BioWare games. The 3PS aspect of the gameplay is the awesome part. I wouldn't be as happy if it was just an interactive cinematic like FF XIII.



If you choose to view it that way, sure. I can't change your mind. That's totally up to you.



There are many, including myself, who play BioWare games for story first. BioWare has made NO ATTEMPT to hide the fact that TOR is for those players. If you're not one, it's not your fault. But nor is BioWare lacking anything. It's just a difference. No one's "wrong"...



Possibly. Again, I can't comment. Didn't play. Too much needless, unnecessary blood that you couldn't turn off in Options...
So apparently you're in favor of turning video games into just plain video, because that's the way they're headed.

At what point do you draw the line? The next thing on the chopping block is branching storylines, which we already see in TOR and ME3.

Pro tip: Stories end, and always quickly. Good gameplay ensures longevity. Why do you think people have been playing StarCraft for 11 years? The story was great, but nobody was playing it for the story after the first year.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.08.2012 , 12:02 AM | #472
Quote: Originally Posted by Gungan View Post
So apparently you're in favor of turning video games into just plain video, because that's the way they're headed.

At what point do you draw the line? The next thing on the chopping block is branching storylines, which we already see in TOR and ME3.

Pro tip: Stories end. Good gameplay ensures longevity.
Stories end, eh? For an MMO, though? People are complaining that once their story "ends" at 50, it's over. Obviously, they think it shouldn't. Gameplay? Of course it should be a part of endgame. I think that BioWare, like every other MMO developer to date, underestimated the number of players that refuse to play the storylines. A mistake they are quickly correcting.

And it doesn't. Development on Chapter 4 of all 8 storylines is well underway. Didn't you notice that once you reach 50, your screen says "Interlude"?

And, no, not just plain video. Again, that's pretty much what FF XIII is, and I hated it, and so did a LOT of people. However, Mass Effect trilogy, KotORs 1 and 2 (2 is by Obsidian, I know, but BioWare already had much of the groundwork laid before handing it off to Obsidian. And don't forget LucasArts...)

So, no, plain video? No. And TOR is a far cry from "plain video"...
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

Gungan's Avatar


Gungan
04.08.2012 , 12:13 AM | #473
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
Stories end, eh? For an MMO, though? People are complaining that once their story "ends" at 50, it's over. Obviously, they think it shouldn't. Gameplay? Of course it should be a part of endgame. I think that BioWare, like every other MMO developer to date, underestimated the number of players that refuse to play the storylines. A mistake they are quickly correcting.

And it doesn't. Development on Chapter 4 of all 8 storylines is well underway. Didn't you notice that once you reach 50, your screen says "Interlude"?

And, no, not just plain video. Again, that's pretty much what FF XIII is, and I hated it, and so did a LOT of people. However, Mass Effect trilogy, KotORs 1 and 2 (2 is by Obsidian, I know, but BioWare already had much of the groundwork laid before handing it off to Obsidian. And don't forget LucasArts...)

So, no, plain video? No. And TOR is a far cry from "plain video"...
People are complaining at 50 because once you get to 50, you spend a week or two getting nearly the best gear available, repeatedly playing the same warzone or LFG FP in fleet for hours, and then it's over unless you're really into hard mode+ raiding.

The gameplay in SWTOR isn't good enough, and it might not matter if the story wasn't boring and completely linear (and a minority of levelling content too).

I remember at least a handful of instances in Mass Effect where I cried, burst out cheering/laughing, or had to get up and take a walk to really consider what I was about to do in the game.

I didn't feel a single thing playing the story in SWTOR because they tore the soul out of choice and consequence... and made uninspired generic characters I couldn't care less about. Wait, that's not true... I did feel anger and resentment at my stupid companions and their whiny insignificant problems. Probably not what they were going for though.

Laleilou's Avatar


Laleilou
04.08.2012 , 12:24 AM | #474
I just have to say, did the mods just clean out most of the "I cancelled my sub, etc etc" posts? because all I see are the supportive posts. I swear not all of them were non-constructive, I suppose you have to protect the image of the game eh?

xlSPECTERlx's Avatar


xlSPECTERlx
04.08.2012 , 12:34 AM | #475
Choices for LS and DS points have it's moments, but levelling it seems pretty redundant.
Other than that, this does feel like WoW all over again.

If SWTOR doesn't improve (other than GUI changes, patch 1.2 is meh) before Diablo 3 comes out, will cancel my subscription and will likely not give it another chance.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.08.2012 , 12:46 AM | #476
Quote: Originally Posted by Gungan View Post
People are complaining at 50 because once you get to 50, you spend a week or two getting nearly the best gear available, repeatedly playing the same warzone or LFG FP in fleet for hours, and then it's over unless you're really into hard mode+ raiding.

The gameplay in SWTOR isn't good enough, and it might not matter if the story wasn't boring and completely linear (and a minority of levelling content too).

I remember at least a handful of instances in Mass Effect where I cried, burst out cheering/laughing, or had to get up and take a walk to really consider what I was about to do in the game.

I didn't feel a single thing playing the story in SWTOR because they tore the soul out of choice and consequence... and made uninspired generic characters I couldn't care less about. Wait, that's not true... I did feel anger and resentment at my stupid companions and their whiny insignificant problems. Probably not what they were going for though.
You're still missing one big thing. The very thing that BioWare has stated was one of the engame activities for this MMO, and even stated that it wouldn't be for everyone: Experiencing the other 7 unique storylines. That, itself, is MONTHS worth of gaming.

I have 11 characters. Two at 50, two at 42, the rest done with Chapter One, and even replaying my favorite storylines on another server with another 3 characters. And I'm NOT the minority here.

I've played KotOR 12 times. KotOR2 8 times. Mass Effect several times, Mass Effect 2 a few times, and currently replaying both Mass Effect 1 and 2 to play 3. Again, MILLIONS of people have done the same.

The fact is, BioWare storytelling, by itself, has replay value, much less playing 8 characters to 50 for the 40% unique, non-repeated class storyline.

BioWare has stated for literally YEARS that this is the gameplay at endgame to be expected. YEARS. And people are acting surprised now? That perplexes me to no end.

If people can't see the value in that, then BioWare has already acknowleged, years ago, that this isn't the game for you. Personally, I don't see the reason to bash a game for delivering EXACTLY what they said they would for the last 4 years. I don't see it all.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.08.2012 , 12:47 AM | #477
Quote: Originally Posted by Laleilou View Post
I just have to say, did the mods just clean out most of the "I cancelled my sub, etc etc" posts? because all I see are the supportive posts. I swear not all of them were non-constructive, I suppose you have to protect the image of the game eh?
Actually, no. They deleted the ones that were against the terms, including the ones supporting the game. I know, a couple of mine got deleted, too. Guess I was a bit too harsh...
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

Gungan's Avatar


Gungan
04.08.2012 , 12:49 AM | #478
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
You're still missing one big thing. The very thing that BioWare has stated was one of the engame activities for this MMO, and even stated that it wouldn't be for everyone: Experiencing the other 7 unique storylines. That, itself, is MONTHS worth of gaming.

I have 11 characters. Two at 50, two at 42, the rest done with Chapter One, and even replaying my favorite storylines on another server with another 3 characters. And I'm NOT the minority here.

I've played KotOR 12 times. KotOR2 8 times. Mass Effect several times, Mass Effect 2 a few times, and currently replaying both Mass Effect 1 and 2 to play 3. Again, MILLIONS of people have done the same.

The fact is, BioWare storytelling, by itself, has replay value, much less playing 8 characters to 50 for the 40% unique, non-repeated class storyline.

BioWare has stated for literally YEARS that this is the gameplay at endgame to be expected. YEARS. And people are acting surprised now? That perplexes me to no end.

If people can't see the value in that, then BioWare has already acknowleged, years ago, that this isn't the game for you. Personally, I don't see the reason to bash a game for delivering EXACTLY what they said they would for the last 4 years. I don't see it all.
You keep touting the stories like they're the main content in the game, except you keep ignoring the fact that the storytelling in this game is miles inferior to previous BioWare titles. It's not worth repeating like BioWare Edmonton titles. It is devoid of emotion, and completely generic like every other MMO.

Storytelling is the fourth pillar in this MMO (and I hesistate to call it one). Not the first. It's not good enough to stand on its own. Period.

This game reeks of Mythic.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.08.2012 , 01:04 AM | #479
Quote: Originally Posted by Gungan View Post
You keep touting the stories like they're the main content in the game, except you keep ignoring the fact that the storytelling in this game is miles inferior to previous BioWare titles. It's not worth repeating like BioWare Edmonton titles. It is devoid of emotion, and completely generic like every other MMO.

Storytelling is the fourth pillar in this MMO (and I hesistate to call it one). Not the first. It's not good enough to stand on its own. Period.

This game reeks of Mythic.
And you keep touting the subjective opinion that the storytelling in this game is inferior like its objective fact. It's not good to YOU. I get that.

But to me, and many of my friends, it's some of the best BioWare storytelling to date. Definitely better than any of the KotORs.

The bottom line is that even DA2 and ME3 sales show the fact that obviously many millions did, in fact, enjoy the story. BioWare's statistics, after sales, show that, too. The fact that the the ending of ME3 got people talking, EXACTLY what BioWare planned, is quite telling, too. Think the end if ME3 is all she wrote?

Think again.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

SkuzBukit's Avatar


SkuzBukit
04.08.2012 , 01:07 AM | #480
I've "suspended" my commitment to the game by unsubbing in protest at a whole bunch of different issues.

In the meantime I have a few months of play & time enough to see what 1.2 brings and perhaps an outline of what to expect from 1.3, I'll roll a few more characters to 50, see the other class stories but I won't be surprised if many do not return & indeed more leave the game before 1.2 ever arrives.

Some big competition due to arrive shortly, and I think it will definitely hurt this game that so much of 1.2 took so long to be in the game. EA/BioWare have failed to understand the MMO market, despite thinking they knew what players wanted & trying to provide them with what they thought they would want they missed to mark on too many fronts & I think in the future will have to re-examine their design if they ever intend to put out another MMO.

Story may well be the 4th pillar, but you really have to get the 1st 3 right or the whole roof will come falling in on your head.
Mercenary 55 | Assassin 50 | Marauder 50 | Sniper 50 | Operative 55 | Sorcerer 55 | Powertech 51 | Juggernaut 55
Gunslinger 55 | Guardian 55 | Sage 55 | Vanguard 55 | Scoundrel 27 | Commando 22 | Sentinel 22 | Shadow 21