Damage Meters

Yeah I dont see where it is an absolute must have, I mean you can pretty much figure out what rotations beat the boss faster than others, and the same goes for players. There are people that like to know exactly whats going on when they are fighting. I think you can take it or leave it. When it boils down to it, having a damage meter isnt going to make you the supreme PVE or PVP, it will help ;but I guarantee that you will be beaten by someone without one, and your guild is still going to wipe eventually.

Really? well lets see, did his health go from full to zero in half a second safe to say he got he got served by one-shot mechanic or did the one shot mechanic trigger and he did he die? Did his HP slowly go down till he died, safe to say someone missed his heals. "Was a healer AFK for a fight" I dunno did he heal you for the fight? What did they ever do before damage meters. Me personally I dont use them and I have been cross healing since UO. Some people just want to fill thier screens with junk, like the more crap addons you have the better the player you are.

LOL did the tank die because he didnt get heals.....
Thats usually how they die everytime,

I personally have died on Bonethrasher about 25 times, and I feel like my guild is never going to down him without a damage meter.

1. When people die, I can't always determine what killed them, which makes it hard to tell them what to do differently next time.

2. When we cc the adds, somebody keeps waking them up. I've got people whispering me that they saw so and so do such and such, but with all those spells flying around, who really knows? I've asked everyone to avoid using AoE on that boss, but I'm not confident that everyone knows what that means.

3. When we hit the enrage timer, I'd really like to see who was doing the lowest dps so I can give that person a pep talk about staying on the boss and dpsing while they're running. Or perhaps they're specced incorrectly or using a bad rotation. The fact is, as long as a person is firing something, you can't tell if they're doing fantastic dps or the swtor equivalent of auto-attack.

This is not a hard-core MMO. We have lots of people who've never raided before, and it shows. I have to explain things like CC, LoS, AoE, and yet there are enrage timers. Give me a break. Ironically the people arguing against combat logs and damage meters are the ones who will suffer for the lack of them. In the absence of actual data, I can only assume that the non-raiders are the ones screwing up and holding us back, and I'm therefore less likely to raid with them.

All of this can be worked out with the use of HM FP's. any pitfalls that arise here with the few people you run with are guaranteeing to carry over to the big OP's.

I have to laugh at players who believe damage meters are bad for the game. Meters are a way to measure player performance, which without them would leave raid leaders with very little information on who's not performing up to par with the rest of the group. It is a totally FAIR method for a leader to find who the weak links are, and either help them gear up, help them with their rotations, or replace them if they simply cannot meet expectations.

The people that don't want meters are the weak links, and simply don't want to be blamed for their failure to perform. These players would rather hide behind this lack of information, as opposed to accepting any criticisms and help they could receive otherwise. If anything, these "weak link" players are so selfish that they would impede their raid group's progress just so they could participate. And I'm not saying certain players don't have a right to participate in end-game raiding, but they should either work on improving their performance, or find a guild/clan of similar skill level so they aren't hindering a group's progress.

Raiding, while fun and enjoyable, isn't necessarily a casual event. Guild leaders who want to be hardcore and progress quickly are not going to appreciate weak link guild mates that can't meet expectations. Without meters, there's no way to assess your team.

If BW wants to do this correctly, they would make meters available to raid leaders only. By having the meters only displayed to the raid leader, that single person can then determine how to handle players who aren't performing. There doesn't need to be any public blasting unless the raid leader wishes it (and do you really want to raid with someone like this?).

Meters would be for raids only.

...1 year from now:

I have to laugh at players who believe Target Heal Frames are bad for the game. Target Frames are a way to ensure healer performance, which without them would leave raid's with very little health and wasted over heals continuously through the fights. It is a totally FAIR method for a healer to know who the the other healers target, and either heal another target, Conserve resources, or DPS to meet enrage timers.

or maybe....

I have to laugh at players who believe Macros are bad for the game. Macros are a way to ensure DPS performance, which without them would encourage the chance of hitting the enrage time on bosses. It is a totally FAIR method for a DPS to maximize his rotation, and either have the best rotation, Conserve resources, or Roll their face on the keyboard to meet expectations.

Even...

I have to laugh at players who believe free loot is bad for the game. Free loot is a way to ensure Raids can clear content, which without them would encourage wipes and high repair bills. It is a totally FAIR method for a raid to have the best gear possible before an encounter, and either have the best chance at winning....


I know I'm being an *** right now but seriously, any good raid leader has the capability to come up with a method to test their raiders and to discover the issues that plague them. Damage meters just makes it easer and that's it... EASIER! Let's just cut to the chase and make everything easier so the game can die quickly.....

It is, for HM or Nightmare content. Want to run finely tuned difficult challenging content? Then the other 7 (or 15) people depending on you need to make sure you are carrying your weight. If you want loot by just having fun and goofing off with your tri-tree spec and sub-optimal rotation, you can do so in Story mode. Nobody will stop you, and I doubt anyone will ask you for meters, because the content is made to be beaten in that manner.

Could care less about macros. If I needed them, I could use a 3rd party program or even some existing hardware (razor mice) which allow me to have them. Having them excluded from the game doesn't mean they don't exist, and if you think it does then you have a lack of understanding when it comes to PCs. Either way - this isn't important to me. Macro's is a quality of life improvement, it doesn't make or break your rotation.

Im not sure what you mean by free loot. Story mode should gear people up enough to do HardModes, but not be so overpowering that they can walk into Nightmare and sleep through the raid and only hit 2 buttons to beat all the bosses. Obviously story mode allows you to enjoy the story, without having the encounters tuned so difficult that you NEED meters and perfect rotations to beat them.

Im guessing that last part is sarcasm. What you are suggesting is a raid leader, while Main Tanking, or DPSing, or Healing, should also be watching every single member of their raid while also paying attention to boss mechanics, to figure out who is suboptimally spec'd and not following their rotation? You must be joking. DPS and Healing meters give end-game progression raiding groups the ability to evaluate THEMSELVES along with their raiders-in-crime.

I WILL concede the fact that people spamming meters in any chat is super annoying. But saying 'no meters' isn't the only option. I'd love to see a Ops Leader Panel which the ops leader can start/stop/reset and only share in the ops channel. Problem solved.

This is why I think it'll be interesting to see what happens if these guilds killing bosses who oppose combat logs and meters start falling apart, if they'll start requesting ingame combat logs and meters etc. Of course not all will, and there will be some guilds that stay together for as long as the game lasts, though. But I don't think they all will. Or also, what happens if the content starts getting harder? How long can they hold this stance "friends and fun above performance - but as long as we're getting the results and hopefully not too many other people are"?

What the "anti-damage-meter" crowd doesn't seem to get is that for many of us not having an objective measure of performance makes playing an MMO much less enjoyable, myself included.

I like being able to test/measure different rotations and specs, it is a part of the game for many of us and keeps us engaged and playing. If the devs hadn't said damage meters/combat logs are coming I'd probably cancel my sub after experiencing all of the class quests.

Damage meters will not cause problems with players "looking down" on subpar performers. The people that do that don't need damage meters, they'll make up reason if they need to.

If you don't want to use damage meters, then don't. The way the game seems to be designed you'd still be able to see all of the content and do regular OPs. But hopefully they will make at least some OPs difficult enough so that you'll need to fine tune your DPS/Healing/Interrupts to be successful.

Theory crafting (spreadsheets if you will) and being able to objectively verify your theories is something many people enjoy. There is no reason that both groups can't have what they want.

Some are claiming "Thats why WoW failed/sucks/etc.. because of damage meters, among other reasons." Well if WoW "failed" there probably isn't a company out there that wouldn't want to "fail" exactly like WoW. I still play WoW and have been both a "Hard Core" raider and now a very casual player. Doing either I still like having a combat log so I can objectively measure changes I make to my character.

I've been playing computer games since the original Pong was released, and yes I'm that old. I've never understood why people resist optional additions to games just because they don't like them.

(P.S. If you have combat logs you have damage meters whether they are in game or not. I know I'll probably write my own parser and have it up on my second monitor while I play.)

So kind of like a performance review. They can call the player into a meeting room with an additional manager, um guild officer, and detail the performance of the player and show them where they need to improve. In which case if they do not improve can result in termination err I mean GKicked. Players better start submitting their TPS reports, oops, I mean damage logs.

I really don't care if they have combat logs or not, the only thing that irks me is the people who spend their day as a fry cook then come home and play a game so they can tell other adults how imperfect they are. I already got one job thanks, don't need another one, especially a non-paying one.

We CC the cats too and one time from my sloppy tab targeting I accidentally targeted a CC'd cat and placed a DoT. When the DoT broke the CC, do you know who it attacked? Me. If people are not attacking the cats and the CC last it's full duration it is going to attack the CCer, however if people are attacking it, it is going agro the person who attacked it. If someone breaks the CC, then just look to see who they attack.