You win, I give up on my Juggernaut.

Ill disagree with that completely. on my jugg i think he makes an awesome ball carrier - immunity after charge to CC / movement impairments + the two leaps and push. Intercede to a player up on top of the ramps an enemy jumps to try and slow you down force push will land them at that distance into their goal basically force charge ( which will give you the immunity ) and the goal is scored in a few seconds all the while you have if your geared before your valor dmg reduce reductions around 45-50% or more before you apply any cool downs.

unfortunatley the best way to fill the tank role you seem to desire is a huddle/unstoppable spec OP try it out! u can still get invinsible too if you like! and the hard mitigation enables u do do some dmg if you pick up impale too only problem is you lose easy peels of backhand and unchanneled choke, although i heard they are ninja removing huddle in 1.2... if u keep charge and intercede on cd and your healer knows your guarding him you can both become immortal pretty easy! lets just hope huddle is not removed(its not in patch notes)

Man...the attacks on the OP here are ridiculous and smack of denial and desperation. The Juggernaut, in general, is the worst tank period. I'm sure many of you who say it is okay play it well...but I'll also bet you'd do better on an equally geared PT/Vanguard or Shadow/Assassin....barring playstyle differences. The defensive cool downs are too long, the utility is marginal and the damage is pathetic compared to the other classes when each of them is in their tank spec.

Now, the DPS specs for Jugg can do a few things the other tank class DPS specs can't do...that much is true. But for pure survivability and control, the other tanks have it much better.

And before I get L2P comments...yes I have a Battlemaster Jugg and yes I have a level 50 VG and a level 33 Shadow and a 50 Sentinel and blah, blah, blah. Like the OP I've been playing PvP MMOs for years now and recently spent three years in WAR which has very good PvP tanks EXCEPT for the Swordmaster which I played and which the Juggernaut reminds me of a bit in balancing issues.

I have no idea if the next patch is going to do much for the Juggy....but we'll see if it improves things and if not I'll go back to playing other toons and slagging the Juggernauts out there that think they are good with classes that are simply superior to them.

As a juggernaut player who plays as both a tank and dps in pvp I really don't understand many of the complaints of the OP.

As a tank I am putting out an average of 400k protection, capable of moving the ball quickly as a ball carrier and surviving, and capable of locking down any class in the game I want to until they get frustrated and run away unless they get burned down by our team's dps.

As a dps I can consistently put out 300 to 400k damage and top the kill boards.

I'm not sure what more you could want from this class.

The major assumption here is that the OP knows how to play his class, knows his rotation strategy for both roles in pvp, knows positioning strategy, knows team strategy, knows how to properly gear for both roles, and understands proper stat weighting for each role. As with anyone in these forums that's alot of assumptions.

So here is my two cents. A lot of people in this thread including myself feel that the Jugg is a superior class capable of more than the OP thinks it is. Perhaps instead of arguing you might ask these posters how it is they do what they do?

Just a crazy thought.

Another crazy thought is this; proficiency in any other mmo does not equate to proficiency in this game.

So good troll OP, good troll!

They need to go play some Retribution Paladin on WoW and get back to us.

see above

heh...
I can pretty much DECLAIR i will be the one scoring in huttball before the match even starts.
while guarding a healer (if one exists) for around 100k prot.
while dealing 200k+ dmg.

I can kill ppl while carrying the ball.
I can kill ppl 1v2/1v3 while in dps mode (same build, just change stim/stance/generator-shield)

I can kill healers (well operatives sometimes take longer )
I can stop tanks/seperate them from their guard target/kill them
I can withstand 4+ players trying to kill/CC me for over 20 secs

but most important
I LOOK COOL WHILE DOING IT!!!

So OP, do tell how competitive you are in pvp and how the class is broken...

U must be kidding, right? That lil helpful ability juggs have, that they call intercede. Juggernaut is realy unstoppable on huttball, its just not enough to drop him off the ledge, he immediately comes back if any ally up there. f.e. tankasins and powertechs need to go there by foot

Oh man and killing that boss in Eternity Vault... i forget his name (the one in the lava). You dont have to run out from his pounce, you just wait for the last second and intercede a ranged and charge back in... everyone says how cool i look when i do that, and i sure love to do it. Its awesome. Great mobility.

let's compare tank assassin to tank jugg from a pvp perspective.

assassin:
force pull
force shroud
force speed
2 single target stuns (1 long range)
aoe knockback
takes less passive dmg from force and tech ability's
higher passive endurance
higher stealth detection
defensive cooldowns on a shorter cooldown
selfhealing

jugg:
force charge
force push
intercede
2 melee/close range singletarget stuns (1 channeled unless specced)
aoe stun
defensive cooldowns on a longer cooldown

and to the question, "what is better? force shroud+force speed or charge+force push+intercede";
vs a pug the juggernaut is the better ball carrier cause of random scrubs who stand on the ledge pewpewing at you so you can charge them.
but do you need to be tank specced to do this? eh no..you can do it just aswell as rage and (if not better due to unstoppable) as vengeance.
vs a premade (a good one ofc) you won't get this opportunity nor a chance to leap to a friendly target cause the premade will make sure you won't be able to.
thus being immune to all tech and force ability's for 5 seconds and are able to use this while sprinting will be better by a mile.

so you can see, a darkness assassin is better in pvp in almost every way.
the only thing that a jugg brings is the aoe stun wich is usefull while capping turrets or planting/defusing a bomb. however a dps specced jugg can do the same.

and i didn't even start about the higher TTL and EH an assassin tank has over a jugg tank (concerns pve aswell) or the dmg.

so what will a pvp jugg tank add to a group in competitive pvp over an assassin tank or a dps jugg?
eh...... guard?! oh wait.. NO TAUNT!..oh wait..STUNS!..oh..

but in the end of the day, you're still effective vs random scrubs and that's what matters right?