You win, I give up on my Juggernaut.

The only reason to play as a tank in pvp is to be a ball carrier unless ur only doin that being a tank in pvp is retarded

The only reason to play as a tank in pvp is to be a ball carrier unless ur only doin that being a tank in pvp is retarded

That's so wrong its not even funny. Watch how many tanks are in rated teams. Tanks + healers will be the foundation of every team, guard and taunt in a team that works together might even be too strong. That's why if you look in the PvP forums there are several threads asking for guard and/or taunt to be nerfed.

In a pre-made yep, it's great! In a PUG, even when I whisper and tell a healer that I will be guarding him, I hardly ever get any heals (no jokes!). And a non-healed juggernaut goes down almost as quickly as a non-healed anyone else, which is what my problem is. Again, it doesn't help me to hold a turret or door for some time, when I am the only one there.

(I mostly find myself PUGging pvp because I sneak in game time in between other things, and can't always play on a schedule).

Some of the best tanks I know are Juggies.

I guess you ain't doing it right.

Maybe you aren't getting heals because you aren't aware of where the healer(s) are in relationship to you? Or perhaps you are getting heals, but are standing in the middle of an open area, so that you can be focused? If you are folding as quickly as you say, then at least one of these two things is probably true.

With the exception of 2 stealthers, or other high CC classes, you should be able to hold a door/turret against 2 for...20-odd seconds or so, without help. Longer, if you're good, or outgear them both.

That's a long time. If no one comes to help you in that time, that's your team's fail, not yours.

Riôt

Take away their premade healers and we'll see how good they are... and on another note, we aren't "broken" in the sense that we can't play... we are broken in the sense that to achieve something as a Jugg/Guard we have to work 10x harder than any other class and do everything perfect - 1 mistake or missed cooldown and we're dead.

***Preface: I am in a guild of strong PvPers that have been together over multiple games and played well as a group. I personally have been doing PvP in MMOs since DAoC and very much enjoyed the tank playstyle in what has been pretty much every game I've played up to SWTOR. My ability to play the class really isn't in question here - what is in question is the fact that the numbers and skills make no sense.***

You win Bioware.

I'm ready to give up on my Juggernaut. The class seems like it should be good, right up until you get into any sort of PvP situation with it.

We get heavy armor. Seems awesome right? Then you realize it doesn't actually mitigate damage from the majority of skills, or mitigates only part of it and you're still taking elemental or internal damage.

We're a tank class, so we should have more health than other classes right? Nope, not even if you make an effort to get more, because everyone can mod their gear to have the exact same mods you do and apparently DPS classes like marauders/sentinels should have more base HP to compensate for their lower potential armor. Except the armor doesn't actually mitigate most of the damage that kills you.

Next, we come to base class cooldowns. We get Endure Pain, which seems like it should be good, but in reality just lets you live another 10 seconds maybe, 15 if you spec all the way up Immortal. At the end you will, 95% of the time, have a DoT on you and die to the tick immediately following the expiration of Endure Pain. I have this happen even when I have a pocket healer in PvP because suddenly I lose 30% of my health and then take a DoT tick while he's channeling a heal.

Saber Ward is actually a halfway decent cooldown. The problem is it's on a 3 minute timer. This is the ability we get in place of a 4 second stun that the other base classes get. Said stun has a 1 minute cooldown and can be decreased to 50 seconds for every other class. I have no way to reduce the cooldown on Saber Ward, which I can already use only 1/3 as often as the equivalent abilities given to other classes. Also, this ability is available to marauders so they get another defensive cooldown.

Force Push is supposed to be our equivalent to Grapple and Force Pull, except it's on a longer cooldown and 50% or more of the time, the client has different positions than the server and you end up pushing your target in a completely different direction other than the one you intended, whereas Grapple and Force Pull you just have to deal with the possibility of bouncing someone off the ceiling. Only really relevant in a few places in Huttball.

You can spec Immortal and get Invincible, except that has the same problem Saber Ward does - the cooldown is way, way too long for PvP especially considering the abilities other classes get. In turn, you get to try and play in Soresu with terrible rage generation and damage output (which I did for the first 67 Valor ranks). Because tanking in this game is entirely cooldown dependent for PvP, you can tank for about 22 seconds (Invincible followed by Saber Ward) while tank specced. During that time, the best you can put out pitiful damage that can be healed through by an DPS specced heal capable class, which I don't really have a problem with, except the other tank specs don't have this issue. Powertechs get a 25% reduction for 12 seconds every 2 minutes. Assassins get immunity to tech and Force powers for 5 seconds (if specced into it) and a 12% self heal every 20 seconds that does silly amounts of damage while slowing the target.

I finally gave up and specced Rage about a week ago, and the damage is actually making it possible for me to kill opponents and feel like I'm actually contributing to my team instead of just making us lose slower in bad matches. I'm enjoying this while I have the option to do so, before 1.2 is released. Once 1.2 comes out, marauders will be better smash monkeys than juggernauts because of Quick Recovery and the multitude of defensive cooldowns that make them more difficult to kill than a juggernaut.

I don't want to reroll. I shouldn't have to drop a character I've worked hard on since release because Zoeller seems to think that defensive stats do something in PvP and that class balance is somehow best served by making juggernauts inferior to marauders in almost every shape form or fashion in the DPS arena, and inferior to powertechs and assassins in the PvP tanking arena.

If the 1.2 changes go through as posted, there's a pretty good chance I'm just going to be done. My subscription is cancelled as of right now.

The only reason to play as a tank in pvp is to be a ball carrier unless ur only doin that being a tank in pvp is retarded