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Can Sith join the Force after they die?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Can Sith join the Force after they die?

Fyurii's Avatar


Fyurii
04.02.2012 , 06:43 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
But that's no ghost, that's only a holocron. (At least it seemed like that.)
Pretty sure it was a Sith Lord's spirit.
It's in the tomb where everyone's been disappearing and getting posessed by dead Sith.
________║≤o≥║___________
/_______TROOPER___≡≡≡≡≡≡≡╡
\_/‾‾‾‾ // ╝‾‾╚▄▄▄▄▄/‾‾‾‾‾

Darth_Vicente's Avatar


Darth_Vicente
04.02.2012 , 06:46 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Fyurii View Post
Pretty sure it was a Sith Lord's spirit.
It's in the tomb where everyone's been disappearing and getting posessed by dead Sith.
No, he says himself he's a holocron (holocrons are both advanced and imbued with the Force so they can hold proper conversations like ghost)
Grand Lord of The Sovereign Aeons Server: Ebon Hawk
The Kinslayer Legacy
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Erevan_Kindelar's Avatar


Erevan_Kindelar
04.02.2012 , 06:48 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Fyurii View Post
Pretty sure it was a Sith Lord's spirit.
It's in the tomb where everyone's been disappearing and getting posessed by dead Sith.
Keleth 'Ur in the Dark Temple - durign the conversation with hiom, he makes it pretty clear that he is an interactive hologram, not a Force Ghost.
However, during the SI storyline in the Dark Temple you get to meet the Force Ghost of Lord Kallig, and the SI encounters several other Force Ghosts during the story, so this is definitely possible.

Fyurii's Avatar


Fyurii
04.02.2012 , 07:08 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Vicente View Post
No, he says himself he's a holocron (holocrons are both advanced and imbued with the Force so they can hold proper conversations like ghost)
Oh, you mean just like the holocrons that the Consular has to gather to find out how to fight Morrhage's plague???

The safer assumption for you to have made is that I know the difference between types of Holocron, instead of confusing poor memory of an event for ignorance of lore and technologies contained within it.

To be fair, I was just reminded too much of encountering Ajunta Pall's ghost on Korriban during KoTOR a bit too much.
________║≤o≥║___________
/_______TROOPER___≡≡≡≡≡≡≡╡
\_/‾‾‾‾ // ╝‾‾╚▄▄▄▄▄/‾‾‾‾‾

Darth_Vicente's Avatar


Darth_Vicente
04.03.2012 , 05:45 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Fyurii View Post
Oh, you mean just like the holocrons that the Consular has to gather to find out how to fight Morrhage's plague???

The safer assumption for you to have made is that I know the difference between types of Holocron, instead of confusing poor memory of an event for ignorance of lore and technologies contained within it.

To be fair, I was just reminded too much of encountering Ajunta Pall's ghost on Korriban during KoTOR a bit too much.
I wasn't assuming you were ignorant, I provided information IN CASE you were, or for anyone else who wanted clarification for that matter, but it wasn't the focal point of my post.
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The Kinslayer Legacy
Darth Näeblis | Darth Lanfear| Lord Ra'hvin| Cipher Agent Aludra| Ziare, Imperial Loyalist|Apprentice Telv'isa'sdra|Apprentice Gwynofar|Master Lews-Therin

Osetto's Avatar


Osetto
04.03.2012 , 07:09 AM | #16
Typically, truly becomes one with the Force is an act of peace and losing one's self, therefore it is typically under the purview of the Jedi to do so.

Becoming a Force Ghost that inhabits the living realm is an act of emotional ties to, or a selfish want to stay on, the worldly plane. Therefore Sith often become ghosts as such.

Any sufficiently powerful Force-user can manifest as a ghost after their death, the method and characteristics just differ from light-sider to dark-sider. Light-siders typically merge with the greater Force and only manifest in times when they feel their are needed to influence the living world. Dark-siders typically remain separated from the greater Force, being a lonesome spirit that is bound to an person, place, or thing. Often it is redemption in life that that prevents this fate, or redemption in death that alters it. But, given the time period of sufficiently populated Jedi and Sith Orders with numerous mindsets and moralities, it is possible Force users of each Order to witness the fate often thought characteristic of the other.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
04.03.2012 , 07:43 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Osetto View Post
Typically, truly becomes one with the Force is an act of peace and losing one's self, therefore it is typically under the purview of the Jedi to do so.

Becoming a Force Ghost that inhabits the living realm is an act of emotional ties to, or a selfish want to stay on, the worldly plane. Therefore Sith often become ghosts as such.

Any sufficiently powerful Force-user can manifest as a ghost after their death, the method and characteristics just differ from light-sider to dark-sider. Light-siders typically merge with the greater Force and only manifest in times when they feel their are needed to influence the living world. Dark-siders typically remain separated from the greater Force, being a lonesome spirit that is bound to an person, place, or thing. Often it is redemption in life that that prevents this fate, or redemption in death that alters it. But, given the time period of sufficiently populated Jedi and Sith Orders with numerous mindsets and moralities, it is possible Force users of each Order to witness the fate often thought characteristic of the other.
This is horrifically incorrect.

Quote: Originally Posted by Osetto View Post
Typically, truly becomes one with the Force is an act of peace and losing one's self, therefore it is typically under the purview of the Jedi to do so.
Actually all beings in Star Wars become one with the Force when they die eventually. All beings do this, but eventually is the keyword. The difference is wither or not this is painful.

You see when someone tries to hold onto their power or personality or attachments the Force begins tearing those away. The harder you hold on the harder it tries to rip them away and the more painful it is. The longer it also takes.

Thus when a Jedi dies, because they have moved beyond attachments this process is without pain.

When a Sith dies, because they are all about passions and attachments and all they live for is power, this process is incredibly painful.

Quote:
Becoming a Force Ghost that inhabits the living realm is an act of emotional ties to, or a selfish want to stay on, the worldly plane. Therefore Sith often become ghosts as such.
This is incorrect.

A Force Ghost is something that happens when a Force User completely lets go of attachments at the moment of death and doesn't seek to retain personality and power. The Force rewards them and allows them to retain their personality and memories. Thus only Jedi become Force Ghosts.

Sith can bind themselves to objects and locations, but this is incredibly painful. They are known as Force Wraiths and are restricted in where they can and cannot go. Once the physical object stopping them from becoming one with the Force is destroyed they go to meet their final fate.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Osetto's Avatar


Osetto
04.03.2012 , 08:30 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
Actually all beings in Star Wars become one with the Force when they die eventually. All beings do this, but eventually is the keyword. The difference is wither or not this is painful.

You see when someone tries to hold onto their power or personality or attachments the Force begins tearing those away. The harder you hold on the harder it tries to rip them away and the more painful it is. The longer it also takes.

Thus when a Jedi dies, because they have moved beyond attachments this process is without pain.

When a Sith dies, because they are all about passions and attachments and all they live for is power, this process is incredibly painful.

A Force Ghost is something that happens when a Force User completely lets go of attachments at the moment of death and doesn't seek to retain personality and power. The Force rewards them and allows them to retain their personality and memories. Thus only Jedi become Force Ghosts.

Sith can bind themselves to objects and locations, but this is incredibly painful. They are known as Force Wraiths and are restricted in where they can and cannot go. Once the physical object stopping them from becoming one with the Force is destroyed they go to meet their final fate.
That all seems correct, I suppose my main problem was in terminology and trying explain things with certain false indicators like "truly", "usually", "perhaps".

I suppose I should have said spirit or presence instead of Force Ghost. I mostly tried to convey that Force users possess means of which they maintain a presence in the living realm after death whether they be light-siders or dark-siders. In the end, Jedi typically being about moving on, while Sith typically being about refusing to pass. The manner of which beings make their presence known after death, and the emotional and mental state of said being, being widely varied based on actions pursued in life and at the moment of death.

wrong_turn's Avatar


wrong_turn
04.03.2012 , 09:49 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Fyurii View Post
Pretty sure it was a Sith Lord's spirit.
It's in the tomb where everyone's been disappearing and getting posessed by dead Sith.
Nope, its a holocron. If I remember right one of the options is even to remove it.
€ịị◚◚◚◚ịịịị7▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀) A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. -Master Yoda CE