How do you beat a Vanguard?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
How do you beat a Vanguard?

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broganthomas

03.31.2012 , 05:43 PM \| #111	Quote
I have a 50 vanguard and sent/maras would burn me up pretty quickly. Just keep snares on him and don't let him kite you, and once he's out of ammo he's done.

dwgagner

03.31.2012 , 08:45 PM \| #112	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by jitsuo I'm sorry but this is complete BS. Armor means next to nothing in this game, and PT Pyro is one of the squishiest classes in the game due to lack of CD's. Marauder can absorb MUCH more damage with their defensive CD's+Bleed heals, also, Marauders have higher sustained DPS and Obsfucate takes out PT's frontload burst. All and all, Marauders should have zero trouble dealing with a PT or a VG. I made a compendium about how to beat PT's on the Marauder forums, here's a link to it http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=378099 Where am I mentioning Armor Rating? I'm talking about our shield absorbtion. And good for you? Personally 95% of the time Marauders lose to me so -shrug glad the ones on your server suck? The way I deal with saber ward and obs is to stun / concussion you and kite while it wears off at which point marauder = dead. You are right though when your 2m cooldowns are all up you can absorb a ton of dmg, for a few seconds, fortunately WZ is not 1 fight every 2 minutes. As far as the statement about having zero trouble, if that was the case you wouldn't of needed to write a "compendium" for all of the marauders who are having lots of trouble with VG / PT, lol.

jitsuo

03.31.2012 , 08:49 PM \| #113	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by dwgagner Where am I mentioning Armor Rating? I'm talking about our shield absorbtion. And good for you? Personally 95% of the time Marauders lose to me so -shrug glad the ones on your server suck? The way I deal with saber ward and obs is to stun / concussion you and kite while it wears off at which point marauder = dead. You are right though when your 2m cooldowns are all up you can absorb a ton of dmg, for a few seconds, fortunately WZ is not 1 fight every 2 minutes. As far as the statement about having zero trouble, if that was the case you wouldn't of needed to write a "compendium" for all of the marauders who are having lots of trouble with VG / PT, lol. Because most people are idiots. If a Marauder loses to a PT, he's an idiot, he's an idiot. Tell me how you can beat a Marauder, please. If you're kiting a Marauder, he's a pretty bad Marauder. Crippling Slash=no kiting because PTs have no way to seperate themselves unless they use a Mez/stun, which is then mitigated with a Charge. Obsfucate is casted at the beginning of a fight, so only the TD hits and the Rail Shots are worthless. Saber Ward is a 12 second CD so a stun will not let that wear off. The DPS of a Marauder is higher and the defensive ability of a Marauder is better. I say it again, PT is one of the squishiest classes in the game when it's a Pyro PT. They have 2 defenive CD's, a 25% bubble and a 15% heal. Marauders have Berserk, which makes 18% healing and can be used VERY quickly, Cloak of Pain is 20% damage reduction, Undying Rage extends the life of a Marauder by 5 seconds, Phantom can Vanish while my dots tick on you, Saber Ward increases defense by 50% and decreases tech damage by 25%, Obsfucate takes away 90% of your accuracy. Missing Rail Shot=50% of your damage done. A fight with PT vs. Marauder is a DPS race and a PT is woefully underprepared, end of story. You attempt to say you kill Marauders all the time, but you have submitted no evidence as to WHY a PT can kill a Marauder. They can't kite them, they can't outdamage them, they can't outmitigate them. All they can do is get lucky by jumping on a Marauder who is not paying attention and get lucky with RS procs EDIT: Many Grammar and "adding information" edits
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonewild PVP was overpowered, and under performed. It will therefore be removed from the game until which time it can be implemented to a level of satisfaction deserved by SWTOR customers!

jitsuo

03.31.2012 , 08:51 PM \| #114	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator What makes you think I'm talking about a Pyro? Pyro is not a dps class...it's a tank class...try arsenal based Merc. Perhaps you've never played against them? If you haven't played level 50 PVP on the Republic side you don't know. Try taking a opening salvo of heat missiles plus tracer missile with a few crits added in...8k is not a problem I see it every day. Merc is the only class on the battlefield I have to worry about because of the insane dps with no mitigation. 55 kills in a Huttball game is common. If you let an Arsenal Merc free cast on you then you deserve to die. Charge+Interrupt will see them dead. Arsenal Mercs are the easiest class to 1v1. EDIT: Arsenal Mercs do great damage.....when left alone. The top damage dealers we had to deal with were 2 Commandos named Chubbs and Iopata who were specced whatever the mirror of Arsenal is for Commandos. They were pumping out high DPS until we marked them and sent me and Aeion to take them out (both Marauders). Where they melted people when left alone, they could barely take anyone down 25% health once they are focused. Interrupts destroy Tracer missle, and Marauders have a plethora of interrupts. Merc vs. Marauder. Marauder either Charges in (stupid) or eats a TM whilst running in. First knockback is countered by a Charge, second knockback is countered by either Charge (if off CD) or Force Camo. Interrupt Tracer Missle using the core interrupt and Charge (after the Knockback if possible, if not possible due to CD, then keep reading). Interrupt TM/their heals like this Disruption-->Charge-->Disruption-->Force Choke---->Disruption---->Charge----->Disruption---->Intimidating Roar----->Disruption----->Charge---->Disruption. If he's still alive that means two things A) You have bigger problems than needing to know how to interrupt B) You eat 1 TM and continue interrupting TL;DR If you lose a lot to Arsenal Mercs/Grav roun specced Vanguards, especially if you fight them head on, you are either insanely undergeared or don't know what an interrupt is.
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonewild PVP was overpowered, and under performed. It will therefore be removed from the game until which time it can be implemented to a level of satisfaction deserved by SWTOR customers!

dwgagner

03.31.2012 , 11:32 PM \| #115	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by jitsuo Because most people are idiots. If a Marauder loses to a PT, he's an idiot, he's an idiot. Tell me how you can beat a Marauder, please. If you're kiting a Marauder, he's a pretty bad Marauder. Crippling Slash=no kiting because PTs have no way to seperate themselves unless they use a Mez/stun, which is then mitigated with a Charge. Obsfucate is casted at the beginning of a fight, so only the TD hits and the Rail Shots are worthless. Saber Ward is a 12 second CD so a stun will not let that wear off. The DPS of a Marauder is higher and the defensive ability of a Marauder is better. I say it again, PT is one of the squishiest classes in the game when it's a Pyro PT. They have 2 defenive CD's, a 25% bubble and a 15% heal. Marauders have Berserk, which makes 18% healing and can be used VERY quickly, Cloak of Pain is 20% damage reduction, Undying Rage extends the life of a Marauder by 5 seconds, Phantom can Vanish while my dots tick on you, Saber Ward increases defense by 50% and decreases tech damage by 25%, Obsfucate takes away 90% of your accuracy. Missing Rail Shot=50% of your damage done. A fight with PT vs. Marauder is a DPS race and a PT is woefully underprepared, end of story. You attempt to say you kill Marauders all the time, but you have submitted no evidence as to WHY a PT can kill a Marauder. They can't kite them, they can't outdamage them, they can't outmitigate them. All they can do is get lucky by jumping on a Marauder who is not paying attention and get lucky with RS procs EDIT: Many Grammar and "adding information" edits Well then I guess all the marauders on Swiftsure suck *** as it stands currently Marauders are not among the classes that give me trouble, at all in fact. Soooooooooooooooooooo -shrug. Though I do plan to roll a sentinel with 1.2. I'm not trying to state that the class is inherently more powerful than a Marauder and should win 90% of all fights against Marauders regardless of whose controlling it as you're argument seems to be with Marauders vs. PT.s I am however saying that "I" as a Vanguard continually outplay Marauders on my server consistently. While I don't win 100% of the time I win vs them a lot more than I lose and as every fight is not textbook "press this combination of buttons in this sequence for epic lulz" it's situational. I use my stuns appropriately, I keep them dotted and I keep rail shot rolling in their face, I time my crits properly and typically I lock them up when they get low on health before they pop saber ward as most of the ones I run into seem to wait until they are close to death before using it. Which happens to be a mistake when they are cryo naded followed by stun and dead before they get it off. Sooooooooooooooooooooo /shrug I'll be concerned when I start losing to them more than I win, maybe that will happen with our pyro / assault nerf in 1.2 50 VG 50 Merc 50 Operative

jitsuo

03.31.2012 , 11:36 PM \| #116	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by dwgagner Well then I guess all the marauders on Swiftsure suck *** as it stands currently Marauders are not among the classes that give me trouble, at all in fact. Soooooooooooooooooooo -shrug. Though I do plan to roll a sentinel with 1.2. 50 VG 50 Merc 50 Operative It all works out mate. I have a 50 PT and a 50 Marauder. I PT's don't give me trouble on my Mara and only some Maras give me trouble on my PT. It's just one of those things that no Marauder should lose to a PT, but some find a way to ;p
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonewild PVP was overpowered, and under performed. It will therefore be removed from the game until which time it can be implemented to a level of satisfaction deserved by SWTOR customers!

dwgagner

03.31.2012 , 11:41 PM \| #117	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by jitsuo It all works out mate. I have a 50 PT and a 50 Marauder. I PT's don't give me trouble on my Mara and only some Maras give me trouble on my PT. It's just one of those things that no Marauder should lose to a PT, but some find a way to ;p I just find it funny when people try to argue that this class or that class is better than this class when it comes down to the player behind the class, not the class. A good player whose better than you will outplay you regardless of what class they are using yet this seems to be ignored and blame is thrown on the class. "Clearly that class is better than mine cause I'm not supposed to lose to it". Just makes me think that these people have been face rolled a lot by classes they feel shouldn't be able to :P. So thumbs up to all the good players out there, keep face rollin punks that blame class .

Astarica

03.31.2012 , 11:49 PM \| #118	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by jitsuo I'm sorry but this is complete BS. Armor means next to nothing in this game, and PT Pyro is one of the squishiest classes in the game due to lack of CD's. Marauder can absorb MUCH more damage with their defensive CD's+Bleed heals, also, Marauders have higher sustained DPS and Obsfucate takes out PT's frontload burst. All and all, Marauders should have zero trouble dealing with a PT or a VG. I made a compendium about how to beat PT's on the Marauder forums, here's a link to it http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=378099 Honestly I think the only reason why PT consistently beat a top tier DPS class is that the top tier class blow all their cooldowns on each other/themselves. Unless you're just counting on getting insane luck, I don't see how a PT can possibly match the offense/defense package that a Marauder/Assassin (Darkness) brings. The highest damage done by PTs is well below the top DPS done by Darkness in WZ screenshots and generally below the highest Marauder, which implies the class should not have higher DPS than either class (high DPS screenshots usually should have no deaths, so lack of survivality should not be an issue) and there's no comparison on the defense side. I know when I fight a PT I try to cheat and see if I can get away with not using all my CDs because I need them far more for another class. Sometimes this cause me to die but that's a mistake on my part. One time a PT did all his cooldown and blew me away, so next time I use all my offensive CDs on him and blew him away. Although that felt satisfying, after that I realized I really should be saving that burst for a Marauder.

Astarica

03.31.2012 , 11:57 PM \| #119	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by jitsuo If you let an Arsenal Merc free cast on you then you deserve to die. Charge+Interrupt will see them dead. Arsenal Mercs are the easiest class to 1v1. EDIT: Arsenal Mercs do great damage.....when left alone. The top damage dealers we had to deal with were 2 Commandos named Chubbs and Iopata who were specced whatever the mirror of Arsenal is for Commandos. They were pumping out high DPS until we marked them and sent me and Aeion to take them out (both Marauders). Where they melted people when left alone, they could barely take anyone down 25% health once they are focused. Interrupts destroy Tracer missle, and Marauders have a plethora of interrupts. Merc vs. Marauder. Marauder either Charges in (stupid) or eats a TM whilst running in. First knockback is countered by a Charge, second knockback is countered by either Charge (if off CD) or Force Camo. Interrupt Tracer Missle using the core interrupt and Charge (after the Knockback if possible, if not possible due to CD, then keep reading). Interrupt TM/their heals like this Disruption-->Charge-->Disruption-->Force Choke---->Disruption---->Charge----->Disruption---->Intimidating Roar----->Disruption----->Charge---->Disruption. If he's still alive that means two things A) You have bigger problems than needing to know how to interrupt B) You eat 1 TM and continue interrupting TL;DR If you lose a lot to Arsenal Mercs/Grav roun specced Vanguards, especially if you fight them head on, you are either insanely undergeared or don't know what an interrupt is. Disruption's range is far shorter than TM. If you don't charge in (which is dumb because you just get tossed), you'll probably have 4 TM stacks on you from 2 TMs. At this point he can use HSM (the 5th stack isn't going to make or break the fight), and at this point it becomes a fight that depends on how lucky the Merc is with procs. Each Unload proc basically cancels out your interrupt (use Unload when Tracer is interrupted). I've been thinking about whether to just switch to Power Shot if Tracer Missile gets interrupted, since if you got 4 stacks of TM on the enemy you really don't need the 5th one that badly. At any rate this is probably why in 1.2 the chance to proc Barrage is considerably increased so you don't have an instant lose situation if you get unlucky with Barrage procs.

Varicite

03.31.2012 , 11:59 PM \| #120	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica Honestly I think the only reason why PT consistently beat a top tier DPS class is that the top tier class blow all their cooldowns on each other/themselves. Unless you're just counting on getting insane luck, I don't see how a PT can possibly match the offense/defense package that a Marauder/Assassin (Darkness) brings. The highest damage done by PTs is well below the top DPS done by Darkness in WZ screenshots and generally below the highest Marauder, which implies the class should not have higher DPS than either class (high DPS screenshots usually should have no deaths, so lack of survivality should not be an issue) and there's no comparison on the defense side. I know when I fight a PT I try to cheat and see if I can get away with not using all my CDs because I need them far more for another class. Sometimes this cause me to die but that's a mistake on my part. One time a PT did all his cooldown and blew me away, so next time I use all my offensive CDs on him and blew him away. Although that felt satisfying, after that I realized I really should be saving that burst for a Marauder. You seem to be confusing damage done at the WZ w/ actual burst damage. You see, a Darkness Sin has a TON more weak AoE than a PT, whereas most of a PT's damage is heavy single-target damage. They're worlds apart when you are comparing actual damage numbers in a 1v1 situation; a Darkness Sin could never hope to match the type of pressure that a good Pyro PT will bring. They do more damage by surviving longer and outdamaging them in the long run; they beat Pyro PTs because of their defensive cds and healing, not by outdps'ing them. A Mara, on the other hand, survives by outdps'ing a Pyro PT and blowing defensive cds to outlast the punishment the PT can bring. If you aren't willing to trade cds w/ a PT, then you are pretty much asking for them to kill you, because as I said earlier, both of these classes output very similar dps. The only difference between a Pyro PT and Mara dps-wise is that a Mara has more staying power in a combat situation, whereas PTs bring the utility of taunts/grapple/ranged attacks. There's a good reason Pyro PT is widely considered the 3rd most OP 1v1 class.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

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