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Guild Progression Ranking


Cepheid's Avatar


Cepheid
03.30.2012 , 11:54 AM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by jingadingdangdo View Post
The combat log is no better than any of the other current means we have available to us for time validation. It is not difficult to manipulate at all given that all in game time based information is based off your local machine time and not some sort of internal server clock. If this is the case with the combat log (and I believe it is, I could be wrong though), all it would take would be to change the time on your computer before a raid to make your kills appear to have taken place earlier than they actually occurred. This requires maybe 4 or 5 mouse clicks to do, not a great deal of effort.

In the event that the combat log is timestamped based on an internal server clock it is still very easy to manipulate a text file.

The loopholes that a handful of guilds have been abusing are being worked upon as Timelord has already indicated. More details on these changes will be available once they implemented.
Excellent, good to hear it's getting worked out. Thanks for the update.
"I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

Aerro's Avatar


Aerro
03.30.2012 , 11:59 AM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by cshouston View Post
I'm only just seeing all this for the first time, but honestly... it's crap like this that just sucks all the desire to compete right out of me. I wish people could just act like adults instead of the usual trolling children that are ruining what little community this game has at endgame. It's incredibly sad and pathetic.
Were you guys completely trolled because your guild doesn't seem to exist on Raid Progress anymore Or did you guys just take it down out of annoyance?

And yeah I agree its pathetic. I want a site to compete on because competition is what makes end game raiding worth it. When I see people arguing over 'when a kill was made' when it was OBVIOUSLY not done as their guild, it annoys me because its just a game. Just suck it up and do what is right.

I'm just waiting for 1.2 to see how this ends, but still- I have lost faith in people so I don't know how truly competent this site will be until certain changes are made.

However, it seems like the admins are definitely working diligently to improve this website and I look forward to seeing what will happen. I will continue sending in feedback / PMs with any ideas I may come up with seeing as some of them are actually being used!

Cepheid's Avatar


Cepheid
03.30.2012 , 12:07 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
Were you guys completely trolled because your guild doesn't seem to exist on Raid Progress anymore Or did you guys just take it down out of annoyance?

And yeah I agree its pathetic. I want a site to compete on because competition is what makes end game raiding worth it. When I see people arguing over 'when a kill was made' when it was OBVIOUSLY not done as their guild, it annoys me because its just a game. Just suck it up and do what is right.

I'm just waiting for 1.2 to see how this ends, but still- I have lost faith in people so I don't know how truly competent this site will be until certain changes are made.

However, it seems like the admins are definitely working diligently to improve this website and I look forward to seeing what will happen. I will continue sending in feedback / PMs with any ideas I may come up with seeing as some of them are actually being used!
Yes, I believe they are working on added security to keep the kiddies out. Current setup allows for a much disputed kill (in this scenario perpetrated by an unskilled troll) to remove the kill from progression altogether thus downranking a highly ranked guild. It's better someone trolls it now and the loopholes are found in beta than after it goes live.

As I've extended a hand to Retribution I also welcome and encourage others thread who want to discuss possible website structure solution to hop in Mumble with us (Open).

Nerf Dialogue
"I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

Aerro's Avatar


Aerro
03.30.2012 , 12:13 PM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by Cepheid View Post
Yes, I believe they are working on added security to keep the kiddies out. Current setup allows for a much disputed kill (in this scenario perpetrated by an unskilled troll) to remove the kill from progression altogether thus downranking a highly ranked guild. It's better someone trolls it now and the loopholes are found in beta than after it goes live.

As I've extended a hand to Retribution I also welcome and encourage others thread who want to discuss possible website structure solution to hop in Mumble with us (Open).
I don't have mumble but I could always go grab it. I'm bored literally 90% of the day anyways. I know my guild and I have been trying to think of legitimate ways of how to confirm kills but we always could find flaws in it- hopefully some bright idea will spark soon.

gramz's Avatar


gramz
03.30.2012 , 03:12 PM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
I don't have mumble but I could always go grab it. I'm bored literally 90% of the day anyways. I know my guild and I have been trying to think of legitimate ways of how to confirm kills but we always could find flaws in it- hopefully some bright idea will spark soon.
Time stamped codex entries which are crawlable by the website.

Aerro's Avatar


Aerro
03.30.2012 , 04:00 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by gramz View Post
Time stamped codex entries which are crawlable by the website.
I would settle with just time stamps at the moment. I don't want to ask too much from Bioware haha

SageH's Avatar


SageH
03.30.2012 , 10:49 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Daltin View Post
A site like this was absolutely needed. But a lot of work remains to be done! Good job so far guys, keep it up.

Only bugs to report are everything that everyone has posted here so far. Wish I could see top 100 region though, instead of top 10
This is in the works, I believe somewhere in the page 6-8 area I mentioned we are implementing a paging system so you can look beyond the top 10 of each section without going server by server. Should be here soon!
Kreven <Retribution> - Mandalore the Indomitable (IA Sniper)
Retribution --- SWTOR Raid Progression
5/5 16m Nightmare EV / 5/5 16m Nightmare KP
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SageH's Avatar


SageH
03.30.2012 , 10:53 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
I would settle with just time stamps at the moment. I don't want to ask too much from Bioware haha
Unless it's time stamped achievements that can be pulled directly from the servers via API's then it's going to be subject to manipulation eventually. Perhaps not right away, but it happens and likely will happen. This is why BW really needs to get a team together that can create at least this one single API in order to say "hey, we want to support competitive raiding and we'll give you this tool to inject some life into the community and allow you guys to do the work and do the ranking on your own."

This must happen in order for the system to be "accurate without question."

Any time stamp based on screenshots, logs etc can be altered quite easily by someone with only moderate talent.

So I implore you BW, please assist us in supporting competitive raiding like you are supporting competitive pvp.
Kreven <Retribution> - Mandalore the Indomitable (IA Sniper)
Retribution --- SWTOR Raid Progression
5/5 16m Nightmare EV / 5/5 16m Nightmare KP
5/5 16m HM Explosive Conflict

Draxxen's Avatar


Draxxen
03.30.2012 , 11:28 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by SageH View Post
Unless it's time stamped achievements that can be pulled directly from the servers via API's then it's going to be subject to manipulation eventually. Perhaps not right away, but it happens and likely will happen. This is why BW really needs to get a team together that can create at least this one single API in order to say "hey, we want to support competitive raiding and we'll give you this tool to inject some life into the community and allow you guys to do the work and do the ranking on your own."

This must happen in order for the system to be "accurate without question."

Any time stamp based on screenshots, logs etc can be altered quite easily by someone with only moderate talent.

So I implore you BW, please assist us in supporting competitive raiding like you are supporting competitive pvp.
It can be done, most anything can be exploited if someone puts their mind to it.

However, something simple like requiring combat logs in addition to a screenshot with a minimum amount of confirmations before being counted, really does limit how much ONE individual can do.

An enterprising troll right now can really mess up the site without a lot of effort or time. If you increase the amount of hurdles, the site gains notoriety and clout, and draws more people in. The CONCEPT of the site works, there just need to be hurdles to exploitation.

The operators of the site have been putting time and effort into the website, thankfully the trolls and kiddies have made it possible to see the exploitability of the site and how it can be corrected.

Just require 10/5 Combat logs per kill and verify them that way, its a good start for 1.2
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Inzi's Avatar


Inzi
03.31.2012 , 12:44 AM | #140
It's okay guys, I've got this figured out. When you down a boss, you have to take a picture of yourself, with the computer screen, with the boss dead on it... then text message that to Timelord. Then do the same with the codex entry (gotta check the difficulty right?) Then at least 75% of the raid has to do that within 10 mins and the last person to send the text message is the timestamp of the kill! It's perfect right? Not at all ridiculous.

(WTB API plox. I know it was mentioned in a Q&A or guild summit or something but )
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