Guardian stealth nerf: talent completely removed on test; no mention in 1.2 pnotes

So basically you are saying ditch Swelling Winds? Now who is being inconsistent.

Even ditching Swelling Winds you can only get half of Blade Barrier. Honestly ditching Swelling Winds would just make the pure build even better than the hybrid build. It'll have good single target threat, better aoe threat than the hybrid build, and better survivability. Not to mention if you DO ditch Swelling Winds for Stasis Mastery (idk why you would), you Wouldn't be able to get Blade Barrier. The hybrid build tries to spread its points too thin in order to get what it needs to trump the pure spec.

Clearly it's not threat or survivability you are worried about. You just want more dps than a tank but more survivability than a dps. This is fine, especially for an off-tank build, but it is not necessarily the best dedicated tanking spec.

I suppose in the build I was suggesting (maximizing damage reduction) you would choose to drop Swelling Winds and have only 1 point in Force Rush. I am still pretty sure that build would out-DPS the 31 defense build, and would definitely have better mitigation, though its sweeps would be weaker.

It was already stated, by smashbrother himself, that Guardians do not have a problem with single target threat generation pre 1.2. With 1.2, Guardians are getting a buff to single threat generation anyway. So why Not take swelling winds if it will increase aoe damage and threat? The extra damage mitigation from commanding awe over inner piece and shield spec does not seem worth the focus generation and utility of the pure spec.

I will say though that I kind of like the look of that build a little bit, even though it gives up on our best aoe move. I mean I've said before that it's not that I don't think the hybrid has viability, just that i don't think it is as good as the defense spec anymore

Please show me where I said we MUST have swelling winds.

Swelling winds in 1.2 is only 20%. Pacification is only 1 point and will buff sweep AND cyclone slash, so the two evens out in terms of aoe threat generation. But neither really matter (nor necessary) in 1.2 because we won't be able to aoe tank well anyways because we lost reduced cd to our aoe taunt. Until further changes are made, guardians should give up on being able to aoe tank well, and focus on single target tanking.

I wouldn't say it "gives up on" Sweep. It's just weaker.

I'm still undecided about what I'm going to do when 1.2 hits... currently I'm a 14/27 and so I'm a bit resistant to having to adjust to an entirely different build, but obviously I'll adapt if need be.

Basically I guess I'll either have to give up something from Blade Barricade, Force Rush, or Swelling Winds... or go 31/7/3.

Swelling Winds in 1.2 also buffs Cyclone Slash by 20%, and it gives you the old 3s Force Sweep cooldown reduction. For AoE buffing it's way better than Pacification. Cyclone Slash got some nice potential buffs for Defense in 1.2; with SSM becoming stance-agnostic and Swelling Winds adding damage, you can now potentially buff it for +34% damage while running Soresu.

Swelling Winds is only 2 points now, so more likely a 31/8/2 build. I was 14/27 until the day I saw the patch notes. I've already switched in preparation, and I've also done some testing here and there on the PTS

Hmm, well that changes things slightly I suppose. Maybe a 14/25/2 build? It's basically the same as the old hybrid, but with someplace else to throw the Accuracy points (Stagger), and no more Protector (so -4% Endurance... the Guardian Leap bonus was never that big a deal).

The defense tree got a better Guardian Slash, but lost a lot of Pacification and Command's benefits. I don't know, from looking at it, I'm wondering if the 14/25/2 isn't still the way to go... comparatively the defense tree fares even worse from a damage perspective than it did before, and I'm just not sure that Blade Barrier or the stuns make up for it.

Protector's buff to def was it's main selling point. It being gone is a huge drop in survivability. Nothin was buffed about the hybrid while the Def spec had several buffs and has more all around synergy.

Anyway what do you guys think is better in 1.2?

1/3 dust storm, 2/2 momentum, 2/2 solidified force
2/2 solidified force, 3/3 dust storm
2/2 momentum, 3/3 dust storm

even though I mainly pve, i think im leaning towards solidified force over momentum so maybe the second one...

I disagree. While in PvP the self-reduction was handy, in tanking situations it was not practical to do it very often (boss cleaves, AoE grouping, etc.). I would use it, of course, but relatively rarely, and I question how much damage actually got mitigated since you're leaping away from the boss' attacks. The 4% endurance was a much more reliable benefit.

To me, the survivability drop caused by the loss of that endurance and the occasional mitigation from Protector is not a dealbreaker if the threat generation advantage remains the same.

I don't think I understand your last sentence. What got buffed about the defense spec, outside of Guardian Slash? Seems to me it got its damage reduced (by chopping Pacification), and lost the ability to taunt more frequently (Command).

If I go 31 in defense, I will most likely take the third option. If I try a new hybrid, my guess is that I end up without Momentum. I'm just not sure solidified force is really