SWTOR. Too much theme park?

No, I'm right because I'm right.

You can keep changing your definition all you want it's not going to help you when you're wrong; RvR doesn't have to affect the whole game to be RvR - Please show me where is says it does?



RvR is simply factional PvP with goals, usually non-instanced, but not always.

Ilum's RvR basin is an RvR zone (such as it is).

By your very strange "definition" vanilla DAoC wasn't RvR, and Warhammer Online wasn't really either!
Are you really claiming DAoC the game that created the term RvR wasn't RvR?

Its a shame there aren't more planets like tatooine... Really enjoyed the openness of that one.

"Sandbox" is one of those buzz words that people throw around like it's the next coming of Jesus, when the truth is they're not even interested in exploration or RP. People will still rush to 50 in a week, do nothing but stand around in the Fleet and complain there's nothing to do.

There's no such thing as sandbox or themepark IMO, they are just lazy terminology that don't really fit.

But still the really successful MMORPGs of the future will have a mix of both types of feature.

Copying WoW has never been a success, eventually MMORPG Devs and executive will realise that too.

Okay

"Realm versus Realm (RvR) is a type of Player versus Player gameplay in Massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPG) where the player base is divided over multiple preset realms that fight each other over game assets" (emphasis mine)

There are no game assets that are being fought over, just a system that rewards specific people for their own efforts. No true assets to be gained, kept and defended. The bases in Ilum are merely the mechanic of the area to create places to fight over, but have no impact outside the PVP battle themselves.

Heck, WoW World PVP was more RvR than Ilum. At least the controlling faction gets an area-wide buff in WoW.

The problem with nearly all MMOs nowadays is, that they catered to the casual gamers, not to the "hardcore" ones. All devs of those MMOs listened to the whining of the casual gamer, that the game is too difficult, that it takes too long to achieve this or that, etc.

And that's the culprit. Now in all those games anything can be achieved in a couple of weeks or months by any player with half a brain. The hardcore ones burn through the content at a much faster pace. So after those said couple of months nearly ALL players get bored, except for the really hardcore casual gamers (see what I did there?) and the whining begins, because the devs can't keep up with pumping new content into the game.

It is time for the players and the future devs to face it and get back to what made those games as fun again as they used to be back in the days. The main motivation is to develop your character(s) and the carrot shouldn't be eaten in mere weeks. In fact it probably shouldn't get eaten at all. IMHO it is time to get back to having to work for achieving something in the MMO of your choice instead of begging for it like little children at Christmas eve. At least for me this is where the fun was.

Yup and the game assest in Ilum are there (at the moment) as the points to capture (I agree that Ilum RvR is rubbish, but that doesn't not make it RvR, just rubbish).

That is RvR, I don't know why you resist the plainly obvious.

What exactly would you class as a "game asset" if not points to capture/hold?



Do you think Warhammer online had no RvR in it? Because according to your definition it didn't really for over 3 years (neither did vanilla DAoC).

So again what do you mean exactly by "game assets", if not points to fight over capture and hold?

Even open world PvP is theme parked. On a PvE server, if you want to take part in open world PvP, you need to go to the designated areas.

That is very much theme parked... If you want to go on this ride, you have to go over here.

Alright, it seems I misunderstood the original RvR concept to be something different than what it was. That's what you get for commenting on what DAoC was without actually playing it, I apologize. I never actually played either game but was interested in the RvR concept and it's possibilities. I was always under the impression there was more to it than that. Guess I'm glad now I never tried the games, considering RvR actually IS just a fancy name for objective based open world PVP between factions with no changes to the gameworld despite the results.

Still, what little Ilum is and how unimportant it is for SWTOR gameplay and story do give me the idea that unlike Warhammer Online, RvR was not something pretty high on Bioware's list of priorities and I think we can both agree it barely classifies as RvR. Especially considering the true potential of RvR is a lot more than an open world Warzone free for all between factions.

Personally, I don't really miss it either, but that is just personal taste I must admit. I aoologize for the miscommunication. At least I now took the time to really investigate the concept..

It is totally rubbish RvR (probably the worst I've seen), which is what Bioware have admitted themselves in their reason for mothballing it, which is surprising considering Bioware have Mythic Devs and have run WAR themselves for more than 24 months now.

But it is possibly to have a decent single RvR zone, even Lotro had an ok one.

GW2 looks to build upon the DAoC orginal concept, with a massive RvR zone with 3 different servers fighting to take over it, when one side wins it goes on to fight 2 other winning servers, which sounds like a genuine advancement over DAoC/Planetside/WAR.

Other than that it's Planetside 2.

But I'd still hope Bioware have the capability to put something RvR-like back into SWTOR, even if it's only a big instanced thing like Alterac Valley.