All this 1.2 QQin about NERFs...Wat about Ops/Scoundrel?

im honestly curious. without target dummies, combat logs, or dps meters, how do you know that ops are performing poorly in pve?

No.

You might be talking about that.

I'm talking about the guy that PvPs in his off-time when he's not raiding, but he actually knows how to play his class, and dominates because of it.

There are plenty of videos on youtube of operatives/scoundrels beasting their way to the top damage with 0 deaths. I see BM operatives and scoundrels on my server regularly making top/near top damage with next to no deaths and plenty of contribution to objectives.

It simply doesn't take a player on "that next level" that you insist on describing to make this class successful. Sorry.

Refer to the people that portrayed Powerr as an example of "what the average sin/shadow is capable of" if you want ridiculous comparisons.

I don't think you understand how the new legacy buffs work.. If you get a smuggler/agent past chapter two in their story, the one buff that you get will also apply the smuggler buff, forever.. So if you level one of each class past their chapter 2 story, then your buff will have all the buffs from the different classes..

It's about time someone who plays as a 50 op made an informed and organized post on this subject. Just briefly I'm a fully geared valor 80+ conceal operative who runs the best PVP guild on my server, so I have a lot of experience playing this class.

For those of you who question what an operatives utility is in huttball:

1. Offhealing the tank. This is an incredibly underrated ability. Many times I finish a huttball round with 100k+ healing, much of it on the ballcarrier. Those rounds I don't top damage, but my team wins because of the extra healing. People are focusing the real healers, interrupting them, cc'ing them, and they leave me alone to heal. I can crit for up to 4500 heal if I pop my adrenal. Imagine your tank between the two fire pits at 3k health, and suddenly he gets popped to 7500 health while the 2nd fire pit drops and he pops his defensive CDs. GG.

2. Flashbang. Have you ever had a geared tank ballcarrying just being swarmed by the other team and he's carried them on his back for a while then suddenly THE ENTIRE OPPOSING TEAM GETS STUNNED? Welcome to flashbang. If your team is any good they will stop attacking and let the opponents just sit there for 8 seconds completely powerless while the tank runs away. Oh yea, and after I stun their entire team, I throw in a couple of offheals and he makes it for the score.

3. Stealth control. If you actually do play high level huttball, you would understand that the key to winning is not always about damage/healing numbers. It is about ball control. Two geared and organized teams are going to score 80%+ times they get the ball, so the best way to win is to keep them from ever picking it up to begin with. Good teams both have people waiting in the middle for the ball after scores, fighting it out. Me? I can either wreck people with my burst, or if the opposing players in mid are pretty tough I can sit in stealth, time when the ball's going to come back, open HS on one person, debilitate another, and i've now stunned two people in complete surprise and I often times GRAB THE BALL. Save your defensive CD's for this moment, and evasion can basically make you invincible for 4s, long enough to get to the acid pit and pass to someone who's past the first fire or at the lamp post. Your team has scored before the opponent even knows what hit them. My teammates call me Tom Brady.

4. Soloing healers. Find me a class that can solo a healer besides operative dps. I can open, attack, debilitate, attack attack, root, even if they stun/root me, by the time i get to their slowed tendon severed runaway i can vanish and re-open. Yes, this requires using the 2m vanish cooldown, but this is one situation where I find vanishing to re-open worthwhile. I also have an interrupt. You get that #1 opposing healer down and suddenly the opponents are dropping like flies.

5. Stealthing in the endzone. If my team has decent ball control in the middle but is having trouble scoring due to huge DPS from the other team, making it 70-80% of the way to the line then dying, I can sit in the endzone UNDETECTED, tell my ballcarrier in voice chat where I am, they can throw it from HALFWAY ACROSS THE PIT to my stealthed position and I unstealth at the last second to catch the ball and score. The opponent is swarmed on the tank ballcarrier and as his health hits 20% and they think they've got us, the ball's suddenly in my hands in the endzone.

This is on top of the fact that we have very good 1v1 damage and stealth allows us to choose our targets. I often times top damage in warzones. I have done over 600k damage before. We have our weaknesses... we can't sprint, we can't pull, we can't knockback. These things frustrate me too, but we can't haev everything. Can you imagine if your opponent could stealth, sprint/gap close, heal, stun the whole team, and knock people back? It would be ridiculous. I honestly haven't seen anyone actually use this class/spec to its full utility. People are too simple-minded about what constitutes "utility".

THIS. I play a healer Scoudrel but depending on the map, opposing team composition and my teams composition I can DPS, control, scout, cap/guard nodes, and HEAL LIKE A BEAST, cleanse, sun, snare, DoT etc. I play this class BECAUSE of it's utility. Healing is only part of the show. The OP really missed the ball on this one...

Bad WoW comparism. Rogues allways where one of those upper classes. And loled about the BM hunter in BC part.

Back to topic. It's kind of natural for the operatives not taking all those nerfs over and over again without any word or complaint. Just look at thes forums, theres at least one whine thread regarding the 1.2 changes for almost any class. We are one of the worst, if not the worst class if it comes to PvE DPS, and i guess the gap will just be bigger then now when 1.2 goes live (but i guess this is the wrong forum for this to discuss).

In my oppinion it's the smuggler / IA energy system which screws us this way. Not only do the Scoundrel/Operative, but also the gunslinger/sniper get worthless once they burned away their energy. Now you may argue Troopers/BH have the same issues. But they have significantly lesser skill costs then we do.
Take my DF gunslinger as an example: My DoT's cost 20 energy and if i want my combo to work i have to have both bleeds up before firing off wounding shots (30 energy). Thats a total of 70 energy. I have to maintain 60 energy to have the highest energy regeneration which is impossible with those costs. A shadow for example doesn't has that issue. Similar problems occur for Scoundrels/Operatives. It's all fine when we can kill targets within our first blows. But we aren't made for longer fights.

I vote for a revamped energy system.

Wow, you are blowing my mind right now.

You mean you actually think that the game should be balanced around players who can't bother to learn how to play their class?

no one says that we can't do all these things. i would guess every good operative does them. but - and that is a big BUT(t): every other class can do these things better than us. every other class has more utility, more sustained damage, more control and adds more to team- and objective-based pvp with less effort.

Then why am I consistently on the top of the heal charts with decent damage and getting between 3 and 5 votes per match? I think it is because we CAN provide the levels of "support" or "utility" but if you don't feel that way then I respect your opinion.

Va'andra and X'avia on Ajunta Pall