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Does an MMO need a story?


ConradLionhart's Avatar


ConradLionhart
03.26.2012 , 02:52 AM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Gankdalf_ View Post
I base my claims on fact and the facts are as follows. Star Wars is the largest film licence out there and to make an MMO with a £200 million budget (or whatever it was) on it is like the ultimate MMO. It should be thriving with new servers having to be opened on a regular bases, like in err what's that game called...hmm oh yeah WOW. Now three months down the line well over half the playing population have all left the game.

Oh wait are you one of the people that believe the PR BS that is spewed out by EA every month? I guess you are, no wonder your post was so delusional. How about you forget what people are quoting and simply log into a handful of servers on Sunday evening at peak time and see how empty the game has become.

So I restate my case, this game has been a huge failure, it got 1.7 million box sales due to all the hype and the fact that Star Wars is a AAA title, you should know that even if you have a limited education. Loads left during the free month but many more like myself had a 60 day timecard, they expire today, this is why I predicted a mass exodus over the next few days, I will be right.
WoW was never as successful as SW:TOR in their launch. There were just as many bugs, server crashes, and emergency maintenances during the middle of people's raid sessions. It was VERY disruptive, but a few loyal players hung on and helped them become what it is today.

It has only been 3 months, and already you are expecting them to roll out new servers? WoW never grew that fast in its first year.

You expect SW:TOR to walk on water, and when it doesn't, it is doomed to failure? Your reasonings are incredible.

kitharen's Avatar


kitharen
03.26.2012 , 03:04 AM | #122
Does an MMO need a story? No. No game does.

Bioware has blurred the distinction between games and movies. This is a trend in all Bioware games, not just TOR. Bioware always had games with great stories to tell, but with more recent games the focus has shifted far too much into the story telling direction.

When creating a game the first and most important aspect is gameplay. Story telling always comes second. Bioware seems to have forgotten about this.
"So uncivilized..."

Lazzer's Avatar


Lazzer
03.26.2012 , 03:10 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by kitharen View Post
Does an MMO need a story? No. No game does.

Bioware has blurred the distinction between games and movies. This is a trend in all Bioware games, not just TOR. Bioware always had games with great stories to tell, but with more recent games the focus has shifted far too much into the story telling direction.

When creating a game the first and most important aspect is gameplay. Story telling always comes second. Bioware seems to have forgotten about this.
I disagree, I think they should delve further into the story aspect and make the game more of a niche game for a specific player base. There are enough MMOs on the market at the moment that provide all of the other aspects for people to play.

ConradLionhart's Avatar


ConradLionhart
03.26.2012 , 03:21 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by kitharen View Post
Does an MMO need a story? No. No game does.

Bioware has blurred the distinction between games and movies. This is a trend in all Bioware games, not just TOR. Bioware always had games with great stories to tell, but with more recent games the focus has shifted far too much into the story telling direction.

When creating a game the first and most important aspect is gameplay. Story telling always comes second. Bioware seems to have forgotten about this.
I disagree. People actually bought Mass Effect 3 more for the story than the gameplay. And when they got bad endings, people complained more about that than the gameplay in general.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17458208

In contrast, I think there is not enough story for SW:TOR.
I just finished a part of my class story, and it was very nice. It also involves killing x number of npcs to reach my destination, but I actually wanted to destroy everyone.

But the story for the generic missions aren't as nice. I did not feel like killing x number of npcs to finish my missions, because the story was bland. There was almost no meaning to destroy them.

I don't understand why they create awesome story for class missions, but then make a half-hearted attempt for the generic missions.

So a good story will enhance your gameplay experience. It leaves you longing more for the story. Everything you do becomes more meaningful. The problem with SW:TOR is that only the class story is worth pursuing. My guess is that people say the story doesn't matter, not because it doesn't, but because the story for generic missions aren't as good. If the generic missions had the same quality of story as the class missions, people would be changing their tunes.

ounkeo's Avatar


ounkeo
03.26.2012 , 03:28 AM | #125
MMO's need a story (multiple stories) and they need to be told well. Otherwise all you have is combat grinding. It's quite pointless; as pointless as an RPG that has no story and only combat (it becomes an action game only).

The whole point of an MMORPG is that it is an RPG, which means it needs story telling.

However, I agree that the resource given to the cut scenes and dialogues should have been better spent on building out the basic system.

There's no reason at all to take us out of a perpetual world constantly and into cutscene after cutscene. Or, just as bad, loading screen after loading screen. There are signs all over the place that bioware, when they started this project, doesn't understand the essence of what an MMORPG is. They get the RPG but not the MMO and more importantly, the synthesis of MMO-RPG.

Personally I enjoy the stories but I skip everything. I read the text. It's great the first run through, but tedious (more tedious than mob grinding) with the constant cuts and load. There's no reason they couldn't have been a bit more balanced about it; rather than constant cut/dialogue scenes, they could have just voice the NPC and given us transcription ala traditional RPG quests. They also didn't need ALL that verbose dialogue. Frankly, they could cut 20% of each dialogue and still retain the essence of the conversation.

It's overly much and it's apparent that too much of the resources went to just this ONE system.

Onyx's Avatar


Onyx
03.26.2012 , 03:30 AM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by Gankdalf_ View Post
I played WOW for 6 years and have no idea who any of the NPC characters are except that I know Thrall is leader of the Orcs and some woman is leader of Undercity, that is all I know.
If you don't know any of the NPC characters, that was your choice not to remember them. And in that, how is TOR any different? You can choose to remember quest givers and so forth or you can choose not to.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gankdalf_ View Post
You see in a good MMO you can make your own stories up if you are provided with the tools, . . .
I agree on that point. At least that's what some of us think makes a good MMO--others don't care about story at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gankdalf_ View Post
WOW gave me the tools: A thriving world, great world pvp (I could attack anywhere with my guild and have a chance), it had cross server pvp, LFG tools, excellent crafting...it had IMMERSION!
Two things which really don't belong in a summary of WoW are excellent crafting and immersion. I'm guessing you've never played an MMO that had an excellent crafting system--TOR is slightly better than some other MMOs--and while many agree that TOR has greater immersion than WoW, that immersion is still mostly linear. There are/have been other MMOs out there with far more well-rounded immersion.

Taking it one step further, WoW may have more activities but those should not be confused with tools to make up your own story. Both WoW and TOR are limited in that regard.
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Trekkymnster's Avatar


Trekkymnster
03.26.2012 , 03:32 AM | #127
My opinion of this game. I am playing through my 1st character. The story line is good but towards the end of chapter one I was thinking rinse and repeat on next planet. Luckily I got to Chapter 2..

I like the voice acting as it has dragged me into the story, but after my 1st character if I was to level alts, I will be disabling that. It doesn't seem u need anyone to group with (Yes WoW nerfed a lot so u don't need to either)....

In regards to the LFG Cross server tool for flashpoints etc.. People ask for it, but just go over to the WoW forums to see all the whinging it creates as well. So that issue is a lose / lose situation. IMO I think it's a good idea as I hate sitting in a hub and spamming LFG in chat.

As long as SWTOR has good end game with PVE and PVP then the journey to get there at the moment is fun due to the story more than just the kill X, Collect Y and activate Z.

ConradLionhart's Avatar


ConradLionhart
03.26.2012 , 03:33 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by ounkeo View Post
MMO's need a story (multiple stories) and they need to be told well. Otherwise all you have is combat grinding. It's quite pointless; as pointless as an RPG that has no story and only combat (it becomes an action game only).

The whole point of an MMORPG is that it is an RPG, which means it needs story telling.

However, I agree that the resource given to the cut scenes and dialogues should have been better spent on building out the basic system.

There's no reason at all to take us out of a perpetual world constantly and into cutscene after cutscene. Or, just as bad, loading screen after loading screen. There are signs all over the place that bioware, when they started this project, doesn't understand the essence of what an MMORPG is. They get the RPG but not the MMO and more importantly, the synthesis of MMO-RPG.

Personally I enjoy the stories but I skip everything. I read the text. It's great the first run through, but tedious (more tedious than mob grinding) with the constant cuts and load. There's no reason they couldn't have been a bit more balanced about it; rather than constant cut/dialogue scenes, they could have just voice the NPC and given us transcription ala traditional RPG quests. They also didn't need ALL that verbose dialogue. Frankly, they could cut 20% of each dialogue and still retain the essence of the conversation.

It's overly much and it's apparent that too much of the resources went to just this ONE system.
I think the number of conversation options were done to enhance grouping and the social aspects in general.

If grouped with other people, it gives other people a chance to voice out their opinion. You get to see and hear them speak. Some people also put a lot of work in their appearance, and this way you get to show off how you look. It was also funny to hear some of the responses that other classes make.

One time we were face to face with an enemy where half of his face was disfigured. The trooper won the roll and said "Would you like me to match the other half of your face for you?". It was a tough guy moment.

It is probably tedious to a player soloing the content. Things can be done better.

Darka's Avatar


Darka
03.26.2012 , 03:38 AM | #129
There is a fine line between being part of a great story and watching it.
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DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
03.26.2012 , 03:40 AM | #130
I played Anarchy Online for 5 years and got thoroughly fed up with repeating the same content again and again, without any real motive other than leveling up, and then leveling up some more. SW:TOR gives me actual reasons to do stuff, and tools to give each of my characters a unique personality. In fact, if I hadn't heard such great things about the story and conversations, I wouldn't have started playing at all.

I avoided playing any kind of FPS game for a long time since I felt they were just thinly veiled excuses for virtual violence. I'm still not too fond of the genre, even though the storytelling has improved.