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Legacy surnames do not make sense


Evgen's Avatar


Evgen
03.25.2012 , 05:28 PM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by DjSnazzyduds View Post
I strive for realism in a game where I can go invisible, swing laser swords, party with aliens, and persuade people with the wave of my hand.
Looking at your characters name why do I have no problem understanding why you don't get this?!? :P
And that line has been over used, did you copy paste it?
It doesn't really apply here.
Nor anywhere really, unless you are playing game more abstract than Psychonaughts you want a good dose of realism along with your fantasy. You know, arms connected to shoulders, walking by putting one foot in front of the other, etc.

Suromir's Avatar


Suromir
03.25.2012 , 07:44 PM | #132
yah the "Legacy" system is as stupid as stupid get's.

and you left out the part where your kid/sibling/wife/husband/etc miraculously do the EXACT same thing you do! create another Jedi Knight to make a setinel instead of a guardian? well "jr." still trains under the same master...still follows the same story..still does the same side-quests.

it was a real downer for me whenI learned all my characters HAD to share this stupid name.

I want unique first/last names for all my chars..if I want to reuse one of those surnames on another character to make them my wife/husband/son/daughter/whatever then so be it.

But why is my Pure Blood Sith Warrior using the same surname as my Human Jedi Knight?

stupid..absolutely stupid.

give us real lastnames and make the "Legacy Name" totally seperate...so it's fine to "share" the Legacy over all chars while still letting us have unique characters.

it also severely limits role-players.

yet another bad decision on their part.

Suromir's Avatar


Suromir
03.25.2012 , 07:51 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Kubernetic View Post
The model for this is the Skywalker family, and perhaps the Solo family.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?
because Ben Skywalker grew up on Tattooine with a twin sister named Leia on another planet that he didn't know of. His uncle and aunt were killed by his (unkown to him) evil father. Ben Skywalker destroyed the Death Star after rescuing and fawning over the woman he didn't know was his sister...then went on to Dagoba to train under Yoda...then saved Han Skywalker from Jabba the Skywalker after Boba Skywalker froze him in carbonite.

because Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin Skywalker....do I need to go on?

the Legacy system is idiotic "Why is this so hard for people to understand?"

JacenHallis's Avatar


JacenHallis
03.25.2012 , 07:54 PM | #134
I would love it if the Legacy name became simply a title, like it can be now. Then, have "Surname" as a separate field that can be added to a character at the end of the prologue.

That way, as an example, I could have the following, all with a "The Revan Legacy" as a title:
Revan
Bastila Shan
Mission Vao
Canderous Ordo
Carth Onasi
Malak

... and so on.

The characters would still be saved by their first names. To send a whisper to Mission, it would be "/tell Mission Nice surname there."

I know it's more information to save with a character, but it's a simple text field, and it would go a long way to helping us roleplayers with our characters. We like having last names on our characters. It would be a hell of a bone to throw us. And we've been saying this since the Legacy information was made public before release.
Ruminara Ven
Passion, yet serenity.

JacenHallis's Avatar


JacenHallis
03.25.2012 , 08:00 PM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
because Ben Skywalker grew up on Tattooine with a twin sister named Leia on another planet that he didn't know of. His uncle and aunt were killed by his (unkown to him) evil father. Ben Skywalker destroyed the Death Star after rescuing and fawning over the woman he didn't know was his sister...then went on to Dagoba to train under Yoda...then saved Han Skywalker from Jabba the Skywalker after Boba Skywalker froze him in carbonite.

because Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin Skywalker....do I need to go on?

the Legacy system is idiotic "Why is this so hard for people to understand?"
Actually, Ben Skywalker grew up in a number of places. He was Luke's son.

But, yes, you are correct. The entire Solo family could be considered part of the Skywalker Legacy. I made this point back before release. Han and Leia even named a son after Anakin, the progenitor of the Skywalker Legacy. But, even before that, Leia was a part of the Legacy, but her family name was Organa, due to her adoption. Han was a part of the Legacy, as well, as were Chewbacca and the droids.

But you could also have a Solo Legacy, with Han as the patriarch, Leia as the matriarch, Luke as an ally, and so on. And this might be a Sith Legacy, due to Jacen's eventual fall to the Dark Side and becoming Darth Caedus. It's a viewpoint thing.

Either way, there are a lot of people in these Legacies that don't share family names. I would like to be able to do the same in game.
Ruminara Ven
Passion, yet serenity.

Forgon's Avatar


Forgon
03.25.2012 , 08:16 PM | #136
With the option to have it either not show at all, be an actual last name, or be in brackets as part of that legacy, I don't see how this is a problem for RPCs that are not actually related. Just don't show it then use your family tree to indicate those unrelated characters are rivals or allies or something.
Quote: Originally Posted by milmo View Post
No, we need to rant on how this game is exactly like WoW and when we learn it's not like WoW we go into a blood rage. We must aim to be inconsistent, incoherent and contradictory.

Macabakur's Avatar


Macabakur
03.25.2012 , 08:20 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post

1) It doesn't make sense that your character "earns" his surname. What does Joe Smith do in life to earn the privilege of using the name Smith? Nothing. It's his name, and he has it from birth. There's no explanation for why characters suddenly earn their surname 30 levels into the story.


umm that's how last names started in the first place.. whatever that person was good in life became the second name he/she would go by. Ie. John Shoemaker.. or Jennifer Barber or Kimberly Bowman.. or.. yadda yadda you get the point. The smith one you pointed out was take a huge guess... A Blacksmith!

But ya, my last name is starunner, mainly because I thought it sounded cool, but if I chose to I could give you a viable RP reason why my characters have that last name. I hate to sound like a jerk, but this post is frivolous.
Ghael:50 Sentinel
Aurona:55Gunslinger
Alynthia: 50 Commando
Zang:50 Sith Sorcerer

Kaskava's Avatar


Kaskava
03.25.2012 , 08:45 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
1) It doesn't make sense that your character "earns" his surname. What does Joe Smith do in life to earn the privilege of using the name Smith? Nothing. It's his name, and he has it from birth. There's no explanation for why characters suddenly earn their surname 30 levels into the story.
Historically, this hasn't always been true. And it might change in the future. Just look at how many historical figures have a first name, followed by "the". William the Conqueror is one example. My own last name implies that I create and maintain horseshoes. Its logical that someone, at some point, in the past did so.

There are some cultures where family names exist only to identify which clan/family/dynasty/village you belong to. Most no longer exist, but there ya go.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
2) There's no reason for the Legacy surname to be a unique name. The only reason to have unique names is to be able to identify player characters on the server. We already have that with the characters' first names. Creating a unique identifying first name, and then 30 levels later creating a unique identifying second name is redundant. There's no logical reason why surnames have to be unique when first names are already unique.
There might be a very good mechanical reason for that. It might be because of the actual Legacy levels and rewards. The fact is you don't know if there is a reason for sure, or not. Don't assume you do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
4) There's no reason why all of my characters on the server should have the same last name. If I create a human Bounty Hunter and then Twi'lek Jedi Knight, why would they have the same last name? It doesn't make sense, and there's no reason for it.
The family-tree helps explain that. Kind of. That said, game mechanics and customization>lore of all kinds.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
5) Creating your character's name is a big deal for many people. Having a name that you like is important. In all MMOs, we have to create a unique name for our characters at character creation. Sometimes after a day or two, a player may decide that naming her character "Funnybunny" was not a great idea after all. It's not a big deal since it's a low-level character, she can just delete it and start over. If however we choose a Legacy surname we later decide was a bad idea, we're screwed. The character is level 30 now, so deleting and start over isn't a fair option. And we're not only stuck with it on this character, but every future character we make on that server. Granted, it would be my own fault for making up a dumb name, but still it's not a good system if it can put people in that position.
You almost had it figured out. It is your fault for doing something stupid. If you think that having the oppurtunity to do something stupid makes a system a bad system, you're delusional. By that logic almost EVERY SYSTEM IN THE GAME is a bad system, because they allow you to do stupid things. Like losing all of your credits to repair bills because you have terrible depth perception on Soa.

Its not BioWare's fault if you can't pay your repair bills. It's not BioWare's fault that you made your name Xx****ybunnyxx.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
I've seen posts in the New User help forum from people with this very problem. I think it's going to generate many tickets to GMs requesting to reset the name so it can be changed to something better.
If you ignored the warnings saying that this was permanent, then it's your fault. No one else's.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
These complaints and more came up during the beta (for the few days testers had to respond to this system when it was sprung up at the last minute). The idea of a Legacy system that gives you incentives and bonuses for creating new characters after leveling one is a good idea, but this implementation of surnames is illogical, will create problems for people, is bad for RP, and it should be changed.
It's only partially illogical, it won't create problems for a lot of people, and RP should be, at best, a tertiary concern for design.

I suggest the following changes should be made:

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
1a) Let us create a surname at character creation.
1b) OR if we can only create a surname at level 30, let us change it if we want to, to avoid being "stuck" if we made a mistake.
I'm not opposed to option B. But I don't think it should be free.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
2) Make surnames not unique, meaning two or more players can have characters with the same surname.
Again, there might actually be a reason why you can't.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arodin View Post
3) Allow us to make different surnames for each of our characters on the server.
Kinda destroys the idea of a Legacy, doesn't it?
This just in: Expanding on an ending no one likes is not improving said ending. A polished turd is still a turd.

Kaskava's Avatar


Kaskava
03.25.2012 , 08:53 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
yah the "Legacy" system is as stupid as stupid get's.

and you left out the part where your kid/sibling/wife/husband/etc miraculously do the EXACT same thing you do! create another Jedi Knight to make a setinel instead of a guardian? well "jr." still trains under the same master...still follows the same story..still does the same side-quests.
There are limits to everything. That includes the story. BioWare is trying to incentive re-rolling, by adding some flavor to alts. At least they're offering some kind of explanation, instead of a Sith Warrior just mailing a Jedi Knight a lightsaber.

Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
it was a real downer for me whenI learned all my characters HAD to share this stupid name.
Pretty sure there's an option to turn the display off.

Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
I want unique first/last names for all my chars..if I want to reuse one of those surnames on another character to make them my wife/husband/son/daughter/whatever then so be it.
I'm convinced it has to do with actually tracking your rewards across your account. I might be wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
But why is my Pure Blood Sith Warrior using the same surname as my Human Jedi Knight?

stupid..absolutely stupid.
The Purebloods are a mix of the original Sith species, and the largely human Dark Jedi exiles. Take it from there. If you can't come up with something, oh well.

Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
give us real lastnames and make the "Legacy Name" totally seperate...so it's fine to "share" the Legacy over all chars while still letting us have unique characters.
See above.

Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
it also severely limits role-players.
I don't even roleplay, and even I can see how it works. That you have no imagination is your own problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by Suromir View Post
yet another bad decision on their part.
Disagree.
This just in: Expanding on an ending no one likes is not improving said ending. A polished turd is still a turd.

iceperson's Avatar


iceperson
03.25.2012 , 09:27 PM | #140
you don't "earn" a surname, you choose a legacy name which can then be displayed as a surname if you want.