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Heroic 4s in this game is pointless


Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
03.25.2012 , 06:06 PM | #1
I've been experimenting with various characters to see if I can beat the various Heroic 4s around the world, partly just to see if there's anything interesting in the story and partly because I'm bored. I've come to the conclusion that some heroic 4s are absolutely impossible to solo at even level or even while they still give XP. You can be clever about stuff that requires you hitting switches or killing just a large number of mobs, but there's always some Heroic 4 that features like a guy with boss immunity and 3 elite friends that you cannot possibly solo unless you're 10 levels higher than the enemy.

Now people will say they're Heroic 4s, they're not meant to be soloed, and that's fine, but people pretty much never group up in this game to do anything. Besides, when you do beat them, the reward is usually something uninteresting like a random orange item with blue/green mix of parts, or 3 commendations. You won't get anything that makes you feel powerful even compared to just doing crew skills, and crew skills are weak right now. You get something like 2X worth of XP, except leveling is trivial in this game. Basically Heroic 4s only make sense if you know at least one other guys who likes to kill hordes of elites that are actually sort of challenging instead of just level up to 50 through normal quests and/or PvP. I mean, it's not like being able to duo a Heroic 4 teaches you any meaningful skill in the end game (well it actually does but if you can learn from that you're already set).

The Heroic 2s, on the other hand, are actually pretty well thought out. You can usually solo them if you really know what you're doing or you can grab some help, and it's not even clear if the Heroic 4s give better loot than the Heroic 2s.

There should be at most one Heroic 4 per planet, and Heroic 4s should give twice the reward compared to a Heroic 2 so that there might actually be a reason to try to find some other people to do them.

Altephor's Avatar


Altephor
03.25.2012 , 06:29 PM | #2
Heroic 4

Obviously you can't solo them at level.

TheRealCandyMan's Avatar


TheRealCandyMan
03.25.2012 , 06:40 PM | #3
I disagree, I think there should be MORE heroic 4's and especially heroic 4s that unlock certain areas or something. Doing that would increase the desire to group up a lot.

I remember once on correlia I saw an operative solo that prison break heroic 4, this was before the nerf. I was along for the ride but it was funny to watch.
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Majestic_Jazz's Avatar


Majestic_Jazz
03.25.2012 , 08:14 PM | #4
I am not against Heroic 4s, but I am against them being EVERYONE in one planet and outnumbering Heroic 2s.

I believe there should be ONE Heroic 2 in each main area of a planet.

In contrast, there should be ONE Heroic 4 on the planet that sort of coincides with the main planet's storyline in a deeper way that the other planet quest/Heroic 2s do not. In essence, I am saying that they should be more like mini flashpoints with much dialog options and cinematics instead of an open area of enemies to kill, collect and item, and go back to turn it in.

The problem with Heroic 4s and why nobody does them is because there are TOO MANY of them on one planet to the point where people like myself just skips them to keep the pace of my planet/class story level.

If there were just one big Heroic 4 on each planet, you'll have more people willing to do them because it would be easier to find a group considering that many other people are probably looking for people to join with. And the 1 Heroic 4 on every planet should have more depth to it in terms of cinematics and dialog like some flashpoints [Think Black Talon or The Esseles].

ALSO,

People do Heroic 2s in groups because it is easier to group. Two tanks can group together and one can bring a DPS companion and the other can bring a healing companion. However, for a Heroic 4, you have to spam chat to find 2 DPS, 1 Healer and 1 Tank. And it is always hard to find that 1 healer. So imagine trying to do this 4-5 times on one planet!

Atleast with Heroic 2s you don't have to worry about finding a complete group, just join with someone and use your companions to fill the missing roles [i.e. tank or healer].

So yeah, for future content [expansions] I think Bioware should just have 1 Heroic 4 on the planet and the rest being Heroic 2s.

Wycross's Avatar


Wycross
03.25.2012 , 09:19 PM | #5
This is just a for instance, but I think the Hoth Bonus Missions have 3-4 Heroic 4 missions in them. Which I would wager are completed with a frequency bordering on never.

To me this is purely wasted content. People seldom in my experience do bonus missions and seldom do heroic 4 missions.

I know that after my first character, I stopped even trying to do any heroic mission. I mentioned it during the beta, but there aren't and won't be enough people on a planet after the initial rush do do heroics any more. The initial rush is over, and the population of planets is sparse enough that filling a heroic 4 group is nigh-impossible.

I concur that heroic 4 missions need to go. I would also prefer to see all heroic missions go. Grouping to level was discovered to be ineffective in EverQuest. Most games since then have realized that having group quests for leveling do not work. Group quests in general do not work, in my opinion. Questing is what I would consider solo content.

A mission finder/flashpoint finder might alleviate some of this, but I think that due to the scarcity of leveling people the mission finder portion won't help heroic 4 missions as much. As noted, the population to complete them doesn't seem to be there any more.

TheLakers's Avatar


TheLakers
03.25.2012 , 09:30 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Altephor View Post
Heroic 4

Obviously you can't solo them at level.
Unless you're a stealther.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
03.25.2012 , 10:34 PM | #7
I'm not really talking about whether they're soloable or not. I've soloed pretty much all of them while they still yield XP unless it's one of those where you've to fight a Champion with boss immunity + friends (practically no way to do anything clever there). That's not the point. Like one of the post mentioned, Heroic 4s are just wasted content. You don't need them for XP, and you don't get any interesting loot. They're not even important to the story (that's actually why I did it in case they've a cool cutscene, which they do not) in any way. It's just this quest you pick and then immediately abandon because you know nobody's going to do it, and I see the same guys spamming "LFG for random heroic 4' all day without ever getting the people to do it.

Voss has a heroic 4 (The First Commando I think) that basically has 5 boss fights back to back and each of them drops a blue loot, and I think the final one drops a purple. They're also very tough, on par with FPs of the same level (the last guy you've to interrupt all his nukes or he pretty much one shots the tank, which is asking a lot from a pickup group). This is an example of a Heroic 4 with the right amount of risk, though even there it's hard to get people to do it. Yes some of it is because people don't want to group at all, but if you've a mini FP with the corresponding loot drop some people might at least be motivated. I did that Heroic 4 quite a few times with friends because it's actually worth the time to find people. Certainly I can't imagine why I'd ask a friend to come do a standard Heroic 4 that involves killing large number of elite packs and yield an item worse than a blue level gear of that level. When I asked for help on Heroic 4s on daily missions my reasoning was literally 'because I want to see what happens when you beat it'.

I think I have soloed every heroic 2 while the mobs are still yellow (so +2 at most) with a wide array of classes. They're actually very well thought out. It's unfair for some classes (i.e. if you can only CC droids, you might be screwed) but if the heroic 2 features a mob you can CC, then you can pretty much always do it.

ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
03.25.2012 , 10:37 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLakers View Post
Unless you're a stealther.
Or you're smart. Been soloing Heroic 4s on my Marauder while leveling.
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
03.25.2012 , 10:38 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Wycross View Post
This is just a for instance, but I think the Hoth Bonus Missions have 3-4 Heroic 4 missions in them. Which I would wager are completed with a frequency bordering on never.
I actually soloed all of those at 50, and when I beat it and look at the reward it makes me wonder why would anyone ever do these missions.

Jianka's Avatar


Jianka
03.26.2012 , 05:26 AM | #10
I think, you all confused what purpose [Heroic] missions really serve.

- It is not part of planet story
- It is not part of class story
- It can be skipped without decrementing to your experience
= You aren't required to do them in any way or form

+ It giving fun alternative to players completing content in group
+ It provide one of a kind orange gear as reward or planet commendations in ample quantities, so you can feast yourself at commendation vendor
+ It sometimes giving you unique loot from inside heroic NPCs, like orange bracers/belts (I look at you, Taris)
= Right alternative to solo questing or just bonus activity with right rewards for right kind of people.

At level 50 you also have few daily heroics, and all of them giving you just that - bonus. Be it purple mod or armoring, or one of a kind orange gear for your companions, or commendations in ample quantities, so you can feast yourself at commendation vendor... see the trend here now? Guess no one have problem finding group for level 50 dailies, right?


TLDR: It is bonus - you can do it and get above average rewards, or you can skip it easily.

P.S. I've completed almost all [Heroic] missions on every planet, and never I met problem finding group for them. Even while at average planet population is 15-20 on my server.

In fact I have had bigger problem finding group for Ancient Probe droid on Hoth, then for any of Hoth bonus series heroics.