Does an MMO need a story?

and how exactly is it a single player game?

No offence, but what DID you do?

you didnt raid, you didnt do any of the rep grinds and you never completed a top level dungeon...

so... what then? PvP? RP? what?

Let me make it clear that Massive Multiplayer Online Role Play Game genre is what we are talking about here.

SWTOR lacks the first "M" thing: it's not MASSIVE, and it will never be so, it's in game design. A hero is only one out there. Only one person can kill the emperor who ruled for thousands of years. Only one team can free a man imprisoned 300 years ago. etc.

When everyone's a hero, no one really is. Then the matter of measuring the hero-ness goes to stupid things: how fast you grind, how great you're, and so on.

Update 1.2 brings on something in Massive direction: ranked PvP and tournaments, Legacy connections... But doing so it goes away from "story driven" part.

Game designers must have courage to let the players "drive the story" themselves.

Examples?

Global Legacy system. I want to confront a villain and find out he's my father. Why should I confront one of my own characters? (or I even can not have no empire characters) Legacy connections should be global, i.e. extendable to other players. One tree, one relation network.

Cross-faction flashpoints, or non-direct PvP. Like Collicoid war games, but with real opposite-faction team.

Vacant places on top. Have the chance to actually become the Jedi Council master, the sith-ari, the Fleet commander, with actual power to rule the war. And defend yourself from within (from others willing to occupy the place) and from outside (from bounty hunters).

SWTOR is a great MORPG. And it's moving, slowly, towards becoming an MMORPG.

Oooh, let me guess what hes going to answer on this one:

"you can solo all the way to lvl 50" (because we all know you cant do that in WoW right? hardly anyone does that in WoW right??? )

"theres nothing to do at end-game" (because theres just dozens and dozens of raids and hard mode dungeouns that are actually played at end-game in WoW now right? not just a few... right?)

how many killed the lich king again?

Ah, I don't know. I haven't played WoW.

Nor SWG.

I don't think such game exists/ed. I hope it will. But it's my idea of a perfect MMORPG.

So what youre saying is that no MMO is actually MMO?

For me, the only reason I'm playing this game, and not any other MMOs is BECAUSE of the story.

I've played WoW, but it never grabbed me, and I couldn't even get to level 10, because it was just so Maplestoryish. If I wanted a game where I could commit mass slaughter of animals, I would play Maplestory... at least THAT'S free to play. I dabbled a little into Rift as well. Once again, I couldn't be bothered to keep playing, but I told myself, the endgame's going to be fun, just bear with it. I did, and when I got to 50... I was just so burned out, I played a little of the endgame, but just couldn't get into it.

In essence, people want different things from their games. I'm a player who doesn't have much time on their hands, and wants the 1-50 experience to be where I get immersed. Me and my guild of 60 are all college students, and don't have much time to play at all (EE ftw!). My friends and I play together on a constant basis (I have no trouble getting into 4 man heroics), which made this game feel more MMO than any of the other MMORPGs I've played before.

I don't know that MMOs necessarily need a story. WWII Online comes to mind where the players generate their own story by attacking and defending.

But an MMORPG that involves PVE combat can benefit from having some sort of story.

I like how SWTOR has a number of class stories, so each run through with a new character is a little bit different. However, they all tie into an over story of cold war with planet-based stories as well.

The class stories give you a basis to build your individual character upon. All troopers get assigned to Havoc Squad. Some choose to go dark and some light (and other somewhere in between). Those quest choices will lead you to develop a persona for your character. Bringing along a different companion will make it a slightly different experience as well.

LOL! You and I have vastly different idea of what EXPERIENCED means.

But to answer your topic title.

Yes, MMORPGs need story. The one thing TOR has gotten almost universal praise for is making the leveling journey matter again. Now more experienced MMORPG players (Pre WOW. Being a fry guy at McDonalds doesnt make someone a "experienced" cook after all) will say the leveling was to fast and to easy (and they correct) but that doesnt hide the fact that story made the leveling interesting.

The problem is because of the speed and ease (all problems created by WOW btw) you feel no connection to your character, story or no story. There is no connection so people can walk away with out a second thought.

The future MMORPGs (ones going into development now, not the old system ones like SW, GW2, AA thaqt use the old system and standard) how ever will now have individual storylines for each class and Voice over work. That much TOR got right.

Your right that the 3 month mark will be a big drop off point in subs (well unless your speaking to a fanboi who claims that 10 people on fleet at 7pm is normal and acceptable population and there is no drop off despite same fleet having over 100 at 7pm nightly 4 weeks prior) but thats doesnt mean TOR was a flat out failure.

Things that will carry forward

- fully voiced will become mandatory, already people that leave TOR find they cant stomach the endless reading of the older games. They not TOR fans but in that aspect they have been converted.

- Full storylines per class (hopefully a day will come where you have storylines per build so one class might have 3-4 different storylines designed to their skill set specifically)

- Companions. This was a fantastic concept and EA only touched the bare minimum surface of it. So much potential left unexplored and undeveloped.

- Amazing space (not as in deep space combat but as in total landmass). Games will have to be bigger now thanks to TOR but hopefully they will use their land space better.

- less instaning. While personally I dont might the instancing, I do feel it works against the MMO concept. Or at least the way TOR used it. I have seen instancing used better (DAoC catacombs comes to mind). TOR was to much though.

And more.

EA hit on some great concepts, EA just didnt expand and develop those concepts and figured everyone would just accept barely developed forms. And they didnt. They wanted more from word go.

Mostly though, I think you will find future MMOs will devote more time and energy to socialization (not raiding, not pvp, but real interaction) and community as THATS where TOR falls short. The mods can claim these forums are a community all they want, its not and there is also no community inside game.

TOR did ALLOT right in concept but also showcased that MMOs need to be a social affair. Im not talking forced grouping either, you can have socialization, interaction, community with out forced grouping. EA completely missed the boat in that aspect though and continue to miss the boat in their patchs and updates.