Why the proposed 1.2 Pyrotech changes are poorly thought out

The same RNG mechanics apply to a 32 Pyro as they do a 50 and you know it. I know the 'stars align' moment doesn't happen very often, but you're assuming that its the problem. And then what you're asking for is a compromise for loosing an imbalanced trait.

Are you trying to say that you, a lvl 32 Pyro, has a better grasp of how a level 50 Pyrotech works than... a lvl 50 Pyro? Do you even know what lvl 50 Pyros hit for? Do you know the kind of health pools at 50? Do you have any idea what it is like to play a lvl 50 Pyrotech?

The 'stars align' moment is the problem. Maybe not for you, at lvl 32, because getting back-to-back 1000 crits isn't special. At level 50 getting 3 back to back 3.7k crits is a problem. You don't think that's a problem?

And how many times do I have to say this: we are not just losing our "imbalanced trait" (burst), we are taking a massive hit to our heat regen and overall DPS capabilities too.

most the nerfs in 1.2 are just to shut up people that can't play their classes well. If they really wanted to balance classes out they'd be buffing instead of nerfing so hard. More evidence that bw is clueless what works and what makes things worse.

Its actually more like 2.5k crits, which is far more potent in low end PvP than a 3.7k crit on someone with 17k HP. Do you not know that such values are relative?

All this stuff about being 50 is just appeal to authority. "oh, I have a 50 pyro and you don't so I know what I'm talking about". Its quite self defeating, because I have a level 50 Juggernaut and obviously I know the health pools. Also, you've already told everyone what level 50 pyros hit for, so that's no mystery either. Derp, derp.

I've been saying, maybe there's a way to make the build work effectively around the changes. You don't want to hear that, it has to be a 4.5 second average proc. You haven't even really offered an alternative, just that the current system is OP and that the changes are too much, then masking an argument for keeping the current system as a "win-win".

What are you trying to say? I am literally saying that 3 3.7k crits in a row is OP, and that that should be nerfed. Are you disagreeing with this? Are you trying to say that our burst is currently underpowered?

I just thought it was amusing that you state you have a level 32 Pyro as if it has any relevance. You not being a level 50 Pyrotech is not why I think you don't know what you're talking about. I think you don't know what you're talking about because of things like:

-You thought the global cooldown was 1 second.
-You thought Rocket Punch is going to get a 65% chance to proc PPA.
-You thought Thermal Grenade (I assume you mean Thermal Detonator) was a knock-back.
-You stated that "Pyrotechs, on average, deal 100k more dmg than any other DPS specced class". You are basing this on what exactly?
-You say Pyrotechs have infinite heat.
-You say Pyrotechs get "a free -8 heat move every other move"
-You say "Maybe nerfing the high end DPS will make winning less dependent on who has the best bounty hunters."
-You say "It takes around a minute to wind down a pure burning Pyro, longer if hes lucky"

I've pulled all these quotes right out of this thread.

Are you seriously telling me to derp derp? The entire reason I posted the damage values of our attacks is to give people like you, who don't play Pyrotechs at level 50, an idea of how the class works and what we hit for.

I seem to recall typing at least four alternatives in the original post.

Again, is there something wrong with me saying that our burst is currently OP?

Yes, I think that the current changes are too much. I've provided a lot of math and examples (my original post was 10 pages long in Word) to back me up. You back up your arguments with completely untrue statements (see above), and anecdotes from your level 32 Pyrotech.

I'm pretty sure I do understand. As I stated before, when you live getting a free RS at most once every 15 sec - I actually understand what that feels like MORE than a PT Pyro ever will.

Yes, free RS comprise a lot bigger part of a PT Pyro's diet than it does on a Merc Pyro. On a Merc Pyro those are replaced with Rapid Shots. As I said before, it's a bit tacky for you to complain about being forced to only have 2x as many free RS in 1.2 vs. an even larger number in 1.15.

So what if you think its OP? Wow. I think its OP too. You were trying to say that a 32 Pyrotech can't know the build order of a 50, which is quite silly since the core of the Pyro build is acquired at about level 25. They're even more Op in an under 50 setting where people only have 11k health.


Someone asked if I had a pyrotech. Derp, derp.

Oh, no, I was .5 second off. how could I do such a thing? I feel so bad about myself. Derp, derp.
Oh the humanity, 5% off.
It is a KB, just not on players.

Its called Rail Shot. Derp, derp.
Team with the highest DPS usually controls the game. When was the last time you saw the low end DPS team win when the high end wasn't valor farming?
Yeah, it does. Maybe more like 30 seconds, maybe, but I'm not into the whole .5 second accuracy deal as you are


You said I didn't know the damage values that you posted. Obviously I do, because you posted them. Wow.


You guys have been pushing quite heavily to keep the 4.5 average that its currently at. The other options are 'please don't nerf us as much'. And you still can't really explain how much change there will be between the 6 and 9 seconds, if any significant impact will occur over the Pyrotech's current end-of-WZ damage. You should be able to say, because if such values are situational then it doesn't really matter, does it?

In fact, what you're saying must be wrong, because instead of using facts to retort to my posts you have to resort to overblowing figures of speech and rough estimates to make opponents look bad. If your opinion was in any way legitimate, you wouldn't need to use such tactics.

pwned.

0.5 seconds is a lot when the thing we are talking about is only 1.5 seconds. You were 33% off, I think that's a lot. My entire original post requires you to have the general knowledge of things such as the global cooldown in order to be comprehended, so I guess it makes sense why I have to explain the same things five times to you.

I specifically stated it in the original post however. It undermines your argument when you get simple things like percentages wrong.

Um, that's a big difference. You stated that it was a KB on players, when it is clearly not.

So let me get this straight, you honestly believe that "Pyrotechs, on average, deal 100k more dmg than any other DPS specced class"? You are citing this as evidence? Because there is no way you can back a claim like this up.

Scroll up to the top of your post. See where you wrote ? You clearly just wrote that I "said" something. I guess you're a real bright boy too?

Except Rail Shot can't be used "every other move" like you said it could. And could you please stop saying "derp derp"? It doesn't help your argument.

That's not why I quoted you. I quoted you because you said "Maybe nerfing the high end DPS will make winning less dependent on who has the best bounty hunters." You clearly said the team that wins is the team with the best bounty hunters, not best dps, which is a laughably untrue claim.


30 seconds is not "0.5 seconds" off 1 minute.

Actually, I've explained how big of a change it will be many, many times.

I am not talking about End-of-WZ damage, because End-of-WZ damage is highly dependent on AoE and how many healers you/the opposing team had. I am talking about single target DPS, which is what matters.

What I'm saying must be wrong because I have to make my opponents look bad? I'm sorry but you make yourself look bad all by yourself, I am just here to show you how truly wrong you really are.

Mercenaries and Powertechs are very different classes. Yes, we share some abilities, but we are still very different. Currently, like you said, Rail Shot is not a very big part of your rotation. However, Rail Shot is a very big part of a Powertech's rotation. Thus, we are not being equally affected by the Rail Shot change in this patch.

You specifically said: Therefore, you aren't being negatively impacted by PPA being changed. If you are currently getting one Rail Shot per 15 seconds, in 1.2, at worst, you will still get one Rail Shot per 15 seconds.

However, even if you were being negatively impacted by this change, it would still affect Powertechs more because Rail Shot is more important to a Powertech than it is to a Mercenary. You said it yourself: Thus, if something negatively affects Rail Shot it will negatively affect Powertechs more than it negatively affects Mercenaries. Trust me this has nothing to do with being "tacky".