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Why the proposed 1.2 Pyrotech changes are poorly thought out

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why the proposed 1.2 Pyrotech changes are poorly thought out

GianBaal's Avatar


GianBaal
03.23.2012 , 12:16 AM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Lu_Bei View Post
Don't quit me, bro.

You implied that its okay that a PT does, on average, 100k more damage than another DPS specced class. I didn't embellish, its right there in your post. "Theology" is a very accurate name for you.
That is simply not the case. Both warrior classes and sorcerers top my dmg in a wz easily. My prefered Jugg generally does 10% more dmg than i do (I'm talking in the 500k+ bracket). Granted, he is rage-specced and having an aoe as your main move helps alot there. But there are quite a few marauders (arguably single-target-dps) who top me quite regulary.

And then there is the sorcerer. Just a few days ago I saw one sorc doing 770k in a voidstar. And that is something i can only dream off...

I have to admit the dmgspikes my PT can do are a bit over the top, but nerfing my ability to do uber dmg and vent heat, yet leaving my chance to do no dmg and vent no heat untouched is simply wrong.

An easy solution would be to to change the talent into a normal cd-reduction, aka 3/6/9sec or 2/4/6 secs ( which would be the most likely). That would even out the dmgspikes aswell as the venting holes. It is as easy as that, but no... we have to gimp PT to the point it might be close to unusable.
Please ignore my bad english. I'm a non-native speaker.

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Agooz's Avatar


Agooz
03.23.2012 , 12:20 AM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Lu_Bei View Post
Don't quit me, bro.

You implied that its okay that a PT does, on average, 100k more damage than another DPS specced class. I didn't embellish, its right there in your post. "Theology" is a very accurate name for you.
Yes it is PERFECTLY ok that a PT would have 100k more damage than another dps specced class.
Because only an idiot would balance classes that dont have similar abilities based on damage alone.
I'll give up my 100k extra damage advantage when you give me the utilities that Sorc, Juggs, Marauders get. In case you havent played a single huttball, Pyros dont win the games no matter how much damage they do. It's the juggs, sorc, stealthers, healers that get the wins.

Theology's Avatar


Theology
03.23.2012 , 12:21 AM | #143
Meh, you're just being immature now. You made up random numbers, then when i said how absurd that was, you turn it around to say that I said it's okay that we do 330k to sorc's 180k?

Here, Arsenal merc in my guild: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/dps31512.jpg/

And a DPS sorc: http://www.shut-out.proboards.com/in...read=2&post=84

And a Concealment Operative: http://www.shut-out.proboards.com/in...read=2&post=95

And me (Parallel): http://www.shut-out.proboards.com/in...hread=2&post=3


Please leave this thread now.

Lu_Bei's Avatar


Lu_Bei
03.23.2012 , 12:22 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by hoyasaxa View Post
In that same game, the Sorc did healing, bubbling, knockbacks, and used his sprint to be an effective team member. The PT did... not. Pyro is a pure dps spec, and it has limited to no utility in objective-based pvp apart from melting faces quickly.

The best class for melting faces quickly will now also be a class (sent/mara) with more utility skills than the PT ever had.

Also, I didn't read in the OP anything about the chance of your target to deflect your wonderful proc. Even with accuracy reasonably stacked, you can't guarantee that RS/HIB won't simply be ignored by your target.
If every game were Huttball, that'd be a sound argument. Knockback(s??), pull, and force speed doesn't get you that far in an Alderaan or Voidstar game. Besides, Pyrotech gets a KB and the pull ability. Other 'full DPS' classes like Sniper don't come very close to the DPS threshold of Pyrotechs, who have even less utility skills.
Squadron 238 ~

hoyasaxa's Avatar


hoyasaxa
03.23.2012 , 12:25 AM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Lu_Bei View Post
If every game were Huttball, that'd be a sound argument. Knockback(s??), pull, and force speed doesn't get you that far in an Alderaan or Voidstar game. Besides, Pyrotech gets a KB and the pull ability. Other 'full DPS' classes like Sniper don't come very close to the DPS threshold of Pyrotechs, who have even less utility skills.
Pyros do not get a KB. You are mistaken. We get a hostile target pull.

Force speed and bubbles don't get you very far? Knockbacks are exceptionally useful in all games, and a "run the hell away" button works wonders.

GianBaal's Avatar


GianBaal
03.23.2012 , 12:26 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Agooz View Post
Yes it is PERFECTLY ok that a PT would have 100k more damage than another dps specced class.
Because only an idiot would balance classes that dont have similar abilities based on damage alone.
I'll give up my 100k extra damage advantage when you give me the utilities that Sorc, Juggs, Marauders get. In case you havent played a single huttball, Pyros dont win the games no matter how much damage they do. It's the juggs, sorc, stealthers, healers that get the wins.
I still don't get why you do 100k more than any other class. What crappy server are you on? I have trouble hitting 500k mostly, let alone 600k. Yet there are some 8especially marauders and sorcs) who seem to hit it quite regulary. There is no reason to argue it is ok for a PT to do 100k more dmg than everybody else on a regular basis, simply because it is wrong.
Please ignore my bad english. I'm a non-native speaker.

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Agooz's Avatar


Agooz
03.23.2012 , 12:28 AM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Lu_Bei View Post
If every game were Huttball, that'd be a sound argument. Knockback(s??), pull, and force speed doesn't get you that far in an Alderaan or Voidstar game. Besides, Pyrotech gets a KB and the pull ability. Other 'full DPS' classes like Sniper don't come very close to the DPS threshold of Pyrotechs, who have even less utility skills.
What Pyro has KB now?? lol you know alot about the AC!

While snipers in their current state imo are not OP. They still have a huge advantage over Pyros. Pyros are always in your face, they cant be hiding in anyway and deal their damage. 35-40m range is a HUGE advantage over 4m-10m Pyros fight in. And by the way, it's snipers that have the KB not Pyros.

Agooz's Avatar


Agooz
03.23.2012 , 12:30 AM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by GianBaal View Post
I still don't get why you do 100k more than any other class. What crappy server are you on? I have trouble hitting 500k mostly, let alone 600k. Yet there are some 8especially marauders and sorcs) who seem to hit it quite regulary. There is no reason to argue it is ok for a PT to do 100k more dmg than everybody else on a regular basis, simply because it is wrong.
I am going along with his exaggeration to prove a point. The point is "even" if Pyros are constantly ahead in damage over other dps specced ACs, it is STILL justifiable.

hoyasaxa's Avatar


hoyasaxa
03.23.2012 , 12:31 AM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Agooz View Post
What Pyro has KB now?? lol you know alot about the AC!

While snipers in their current state imo are not OP. They still have a huge advantage over Pyros. Pyros are always in your face, they cant be hiding in anyway and deal their damage. 35-40m range is a HUGE advantage over 4m-10m Pyros fight in. And by the way, it's snipers that have the KB not Pyros.
This is correct. Also, to argue that snipers as a pure dps class are broken (which may be true) should not mean that PTs should be broken too. This game is already dominated by force-using characters.

Lu_Bei's Avatar


Lu_Bei
03.23.2012 , 12:35 AM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by hoyasaxa View Post
This is correct. Also, to argue that snipers as a pure dps class are broken (which may be true) should not mean that PTs should be broken too. This game is already dominated by force-using characters.
I mean that it should be balanced within some respect. My point is that the changes will have a marginal effect overall, and the three people beating their war drums know it. Pyrotechs are overpowered right now, and reducing their effect a little bit isn't even going to change that.
Squadron 238 ~