Can anyone provide a brief history of warhammer?

You are wrong and taking racially not mechanically, IBs had grudge BG had hate resource mechanics, BOs and SMs had the stance mechanic.

Just because BG and SM were elves didnt make them mirrors

But yes they did break it and it was fun and SW isnt nearly close to the fun levels warhammer had originally

True the same resource. Wasn't thinking race though but most common/iconic combat styles, sword&board vs 2hander.

But yeah forgot the mechanics. Like I said they still broke the **** either way lol.

THIS! is the best summary what WAR had become. I was Class Leader and Core Tester (after EU/US merge) and it took me like a year to convince BW/Mythic that Blackguard is a poorly designed class. They buffed it a lil after all but it was no where near of its "mirror class". Still, it was last good patch IMO.

Let me say this, if you wanna PvP (RvR) game WAR was (is?) the best game there is starting from lvl 10. As soon as you step in RvR zone you are having a blast. They ruined end-game a bit but still you feel like you are in real war between factions. OFC major flaw of it was 2 sided war but only DAOC managed it in more elegant way.

All I see in SWTOR "PvP" are mistakes replicated from WAR but no brilliant idead taken from it. Let me just name few things. Keep sieges (where smaller number could hold keep for a very long time), public quests (for PvE casuals), open world PvP (where any class/party could be a match-winner) and last but not least objective based open PvP areas.

Now, what we have in SWTOR. Warzones that could be easily won if you have proper team (same was in WAR - big mistake, also pug vs premade), lack of open world PvP (Ilum was a fail since day 1), great solo PvE and group PvE (same was in WAR but quite meaningless), not exactly mirrored classes (less than in WAR but still you can clearly see what side DEVs play), lack of 3rd faction to balance the sides even if it was AI controlled like in Aion (I know crap game that went F2P, I was there).

finally... OMG I wanted to go to sleep but this topic caught my attention.

/ respect all

this!

I had BG and rocked with it and it was nowhere close to SM. Only racial similarities, mechanically wise it was supposed to be IB mirror but BW never manageg (or didn't have resources/time) to fully mirror them. BG was poor cousin of BG all the way till the end of the game.

Lol so YOU were the guy responsible for singlehandedly killing Blackguards' undetauntable backloaded burst in exchange for getting us an armor debuff that we didn't want (we wanted the WS buff)?

Well done ... well done ...

Sigh ...

I played War for quite some time. The end game content was terrible. Zergy and a lag fest. So bad the most of us re rolled and played in the lower tiers where the pvp and rvr aspects were pretty fun.

The pvp and rvr was decent up to Tier 3 where things started to get bad. There were two and three hour assaults on keeps that were great fun. Sometimes the keeps would switch hands quickly but not always.

BW's were silly OP. Other classes were pretty fair. Unless you have absolute mirrors it is very tough to balance any game. I am not sure any game has the players convinced that all the classes are balanced because nobody likes to lose.

The loot mechanism for keep take overs was more or less botched like the RNG here. There was some calculation on damage/healing done and I think the healers made out like bandits. People were always complaining about the same people always getting the top piece of loot gear but you could easily compete with bought gear.

There was open world pvp all over the place.

The game had lag issues in places and like SWTOR far too many servers. Game Companies apparently have no clue how to handle the immediate in rush of new players at launch then create more and more servers and then the free month runs out and 1/2 the servers are next to dead.

What I liked about War was that a guild could claim a keep and pay to upgrade the defenses etc and the keep would fly your guilds banner while you held it. It was a great credit drain and they had tithing in the game to help pay for keep captures.

The CC was out of control as well. The game was known to most as stunhammer. Pocket healers and tanks were nearly impossible to deal with. A few tanks could hold the keep door for a long time.

Well organized groups would allow the doors to be broken down to let the attackers in to slaughter them as you really never knew just how many were in the keep. A couple of BW on the walls added in and it was pure destruction.

I don't recall exactly why I quit or when but i think it was when they tried an overhaul of most of the classes, similar to 1.2 here and most people just quit.

Great game but the devs refused to listen to the player base and nerf specific classes to make the game balanced. Players got tired of the lack of communication and continued inaction to restore balance to the game...i.e. 4 characters being able to hold off and kill 80 characters.

Once the play base left all PVE advancement was abandoned and they focused on what remaining pvp players they had left...long slow death of a great game due to poor development...sorta like what is happening here. The things the players are happy with are being destroyed and things players could give a rats *** about are being put forward as amazing changes.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'This!

Wow Warhammer..........
Havent played that game in almost 2+ years now, but still have memories good and bad. Reading through the pages i do see some similarities and reading players reactions and thoughts hope BW is going to be moar proactive than Mythic was/did.

The bad:
--It has all ready been covered by previous posts......classes not properly mirrored or mechanic imbalances.
--Why is it always 2 factions?? Never played DOAC but for a month then RL got me, but man when I played SWG (Pre-CU, CU and NGE) we always wanted a 3rd faction. Black Sun style mercenaries to keep things hot and interesting. DOAC did that but that was what was missing in Warhammer and this game TBH.
--2 factions always lead to faction imbalance. Dark crag was my destruction and forget my good guy server but my faction was always the underdog...2 or 3 to 1 odds. good that i didnt have to look far for a pvp fight, bad that wee usually got rolled in a long siege. look at server pops now. transfers, forced merges.....gona happen soon I think one way or the other.
--gear set imbalances. 2 fold IMO on this. Always got screwed on the drops from forts and keeps, but made out good in Lost Vale and such.
Token system was good that i could finally CONTROL my gear advancement but it was a pain collecting them sometimes due to pop imbalance.
--only allowing 100 then 150 then 200 per side go into a Fort defense/assualt on first come first serve basis.
--City seiges sucked period. more fun was had in fort and keep attacks/defense thatn the city
--Spawn camping pvp matches = lamesauce & players that couldnt die no matter if 2, 3, 4 players were beating on him.

The Good:
--Ya know, i liked the part of the open world system. i loved being part of a WB (Warband) and we would deploy 3 of them. 2 would assault the keeps in one of the 3 realms while the 3rd would try and sneak the claim to a lesser defended realm. flip the keeps and the assualt the main fort. Those fort and keep fights were so fun even if you lost we were in vent laughing or calling hacks, but it was still fun.
Then there was the buff reward for capturing land...sure it was more for a PvE perspective but at least denying the other side something made you feel good about doing something. I dont see anything liek that here in this game yet.

--having a huge zone to ride around in big bands purposely looking for the enemy, big fight small fight or a call for a duel one on one (popcorn event). nothing liek that in this game yet.
Hell, even SWG had Restuss and pvp bases on Talus, Rori, Corellia and Theed Palace to fight over control. got buffs, got consumable buffs the longer you held it from the enemy you got better consumable buffs and 1-use trinkets. The fact you had so many to take or lose amde it fun to try and stop the other side. plus, those bases had puzzles that required all the lcasses to do a part in flipping the base to own it made it more fun becuase you were ne3eded, you play3d a function other than a meatbag, bullet bump! Dotn see anything like that here in this game.

--Guild alliances. that was so cool to have 3 guilds all linked by chat and then made it so easy to band togehter and coordiante attacks simultaneously. Even having the chat and alliance guilds to form pvp teams. Dotn see any of that here.

--Tokens vs RNG for gear. Finally, getting tokens to allow me to CHOOSE what gear i need was such a better option over Warhammers RNG drops.....well SWTOR too for that matter. dont see any of that in this game except for pvp gear, which is so easy to come by it doesnt make so much a difference. at least till 1.2 drops.

--siege equipment to operate and aid taking down forts/keeps or taking out the enemies seige engines. dont see any of that here.

Guess this game has some way to go still, despite its 4 moths old and growing. i have hope, i have wants.....i just have to have paitience and trust BW will make right/better decisions for the future of my gameplay sake!

i played warhammer for 2 years, from launch until the release of rift.

the first 6 months was a bugfest with little incentive to pvp. keep/zone trading was the norm as actualy fighting slowed down your progression. the upper managements response was that the game was fine and they liked it how it was. very head in the sand kind of deal.

after about 6 months a bunch of folks at mythic lost their jobs and faults were admitted. things started to get better. bugs were patched, classes were moving towards balance, although the brightwizard/sorcs would always be flavour of the year. pvp/rvr started to happen in a big way. unbalanced server populations were still a problem. but for balanced servers the game became noticably better.

land of the dead expansion was introduced as a massive step backwards. mostly pve, the new zone was about first one side opening up access, zerging the hell out of any enemy faction players they found, then pveing until the other side regained access and zerged them back. only one faction could have access at a time, making reinforcements impossible.

towards the end of my time in the game, city sieges were altered to make them less pve in the later stages (top end gear), however premade warbands (24 players) dominated just as they do in warzones/warfronts/scenarios. pugs had no chance and it wasnt uncommon to see 3 or 4 pages of pug names on the scoreboard from the large number of quitters.

on the rare occasions it happened, premade vs premade city siege warband fights were epicly fun.
likewise the open world keep sieges, when numbers balanced (and this did happen, atleast on the badlands server) we a lot of fun for all involved.

easilly the best pvp experiences i've ever had in an mmo came from warhammer.

Anomandar - Blackguard - Badlands - Warhammer
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to.../index/8260604
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...ndex/3259064/1