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Guardian stealth nerf: talent completely removed on test; no mention in 1.2 pnotes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Guardian stealth nerf: talent completely removed on test; no mention in 1.2 pnotes
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TheLakers's Avatar


TheLakers
03.19.2012 , 06:24 PM | #1
So Vigilance's talent: 'Protector' was mysteriously removed from the game on test server with no mention in the patch notes. This is quite sad actually, as this was the only talent a Guard could spec to increase their hit points. Also a much needed dmg reduction for 6 seconds. So now Guardian's become even less suriviable while Sents with superior defensive cooldowns already, get pretty much buffed across the board.

This change is completely absent logic.

I totally see why this was not stated in the notes as it's easily the BIGGEST nerf to any class in the entire patch. When you see Scoundrels walking around with more hit points than hybrid tank Guardians, don't say I didn't warn ya.

dizzyMongoose's Avatar


dizzyMongoose
03.19.2012 , 07:31 PM | #2
It was replaced with the damage resistance bonus for Focused Defense added to Commanding Awe. What, you thought they'd just give Vigilance a third damage resistance buff?

TheLakers's Avatar


TheLakers
03.19.2012 , 09:13 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by dizzyMongoose View Post
It was replaced with the damage resistance bonus for Focused Defense added to Commanding Awe. What, you thought they'd just give Vigilance a third damage resistance buff?
You do realize the change to commanding Awe is also a nerf, right? How, by your logic is a minor nerf to something unrelated a replacement for completely removing a talent from the game that wasn't even broken.

Meanwhile, Shadow tanks/hybrids were untouched. That makes a ton a sense

dizzyMongoose's Avatar


dizzyMongoose
03.20.2012 , 07:09 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLakers View Post
You do realize the change to commanding Awe is also a nerf, right? How, by your logic is a minor nerf to something unrelated a replacement for completely removing a talent from the game that wasn't even broken.

Meanwhile, Shadow tanks/hybrids were untouched. That makes a ton a sense
Nothing was removed from Commanding Awe, so it in fact was buffed, not nerfed.

Teioh_White's Avatar


Teioh_White
03.21.2012 , 03:05 AM | #5
I'm not certain of the JG terminology, but it's my understanding that deafening defense, our -4% DR skill, has been increased to something like 15%...which only works while our new ability is up. Which drains 14 rage over 30 seconds. More than our full bar. To heal for 30% of our total health. That is...underwhelming.

What these changes really do is just destroy any attempt at the 14/27/0 tanking build. While I was only against that build, it is sad to see it taken away with little given in return, especially considering they did nothing to fix the awful tree that is immortal. It is quite insane to have so many talents in one tree deditcated to building a resource, perhaps hinting that difference in rage generation between Sorersu and Shien is just a bit too massive.

I mean, you don't see Sin's and PT have over 10 skills dedicating to building force and heat, because they don't suffer a resource penalty for being in tank stance, as well as just having a superior resource mechanic. BW seems entirely uninterested in fixing this, and since Juggs can tank any PvE content, abliet worse than PT/Sin, it's unlikely to be examined in thorough detail, as it's a fundamental issue with resource mechanic, and they would have to rework it to make it equal.

nbittel's Avatar


nbittel
03.21.2012 , 08:03 AM | #6
I was under the impression that the 4% reduction on Commanding Awe was still there but now we get an additional increase when popping the new cooldown. I'd love for someone on the test sever to verify what is actually happening. If they remove the 4% reduction then this is indeed an unneeded nerf to an already struggling class.

Ballard "Boulder" O'Connor - Commando
Aengus O'Connor - Guardian
Sanctum of the Exalted - Squad Six

dizzyMongoose's Avatar


dizzyMongoose
03.21.2012 , 08:12 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Teioh_White View Post
I'm not certain of the JG terminology, but it's my understanding that deafening defense, our -4% DR skill, has been increased to something like 15%...which only works while our new ability is up. Which drains 14 rage over 30 seconds. More than our full bar. To heal for 30% of our total health. That is...underwhelming.

What these changes really do is just destroy any attempt at the 14/27/0 tanking build. While I was only against that build, it is sad to see it taken away with little given in return, especially considering they did nothing to fix the awful tree that is immortal. It is quite insane to have so many talents in one tree deditcated to building a resource, perhaps hinting that difference in rage generation between Sorersu and Shien is just a bit too massive.

I mean, you don't see Sin's and PT have over 10 skills dedicating to building force and heat, because they don't suffer a resource penalty for being in tank stance, as well as just having a superior resource mechanic. BW seems entirely uninterested in fixing this, and since Juggs can tank any PvE content, abliet worse than PT/Sin, it's unlikely to be examined in thorough detail, as it's a fundamental issue with resource mechanic, and they would have to rework it to make it equal.
Commanding Awe still gives 2% damage resistance and reduces the Awe cooldown by 7.5s per point, and now it gives +7.5% DR per point when Focused Defense is active. It does exactly the same as before, plus it has the bonus for Focused Defense added. It has not been nerfed.

As for Protector, IMO it was a hack to a team-focused skill and I'm not surprised it was removed. It does break the leapfrogging defensive mechanic in the hybrid and overall nerfs its damage resistance. Unlike some other classes, the hybrid still seems like a perfectly playable spec, but its days as the disputed "better tank than the tank tree" may be over.

Though maybe not; with the Defense tree changes, now hybrids can steal Blade Barrier and still have Commanding Awe, so they can still have the best defense Guardians can buy. The hybrid would have to give up 3 points amongst Dispatch and Swelling Winds to do so, however, so it's a definite tradeoff.

SirWai's Avatar


SirWai
03.21.2012 , 08:14 AM | #8
just to say, they are aiming to get rid of hybrids, they said they don't like them considering that you should have to get something to 31 to make it viable.

TheLakers's Avatar


TheLakers
03.21.2012 , 08:47 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by SirWai View Post
just to say, they are aiming to get rid of hybrids, they said they don't like them considering that you should have to get something to 31 to make it viable.
Funny that. Shadow tank hybrids were unharmed.

And the only talent that gave HP was removed and not replace, which is also really dumb when even Scoundrels get a 6% hit point increase near the bottom tree.

It's pretty funny seeing people defend these changes though. Even funnier is all the QQ about Focus nerfs, when the hybrid spec was completely dismantled into uselessness.

CapuchinSeven's Avatar


CapuchinSeven
03.21.2012 , 08:47 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLakers View Post
You do realize the change to commanding Awe is also a nerf, right? How, by your logic is a minor nerf to something unrelated a replacement for completely removing a talent from the game that wasn't even broken.

Meanwhile, Shadow tanks/hybrids were untouched. That makes a ton a sense
The problem with you is, not only is every post you make a qq post dripping in rage, you also then get your facts wrong, which wouldn't matter we all do it, but you present those "facts" covered in sarcasm, insults and "you know, right?" back at the person who just corrected you.
I know chop-knees.
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