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Why juggernaut?


GianBaal's Avatar


GianBaal
03.18.2012 , 11:28 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
No, it isn't. A proc is being changed from RNG to a predictable number, that's it. Hybrid spec tank/dps Powertech is being nerfed because the dps cylinder will be required for the Rail Shot proc in 1.2. Pyro Powertech will actually be better.
It seems remarkable you are able to read, let alone answer in writing...

before patch: chance to do ultra high dmg <-> chance to do sub-average dmg (and most likely the inbetween, good dmg)

after patch: chance to do average dmg <-> chance to do sub-average dmg ( and always too much heat, not only sometimes)

Now where exactly is the buff in this in your oppinion?
Please ignore my bad english. I'm a non-native speaker.

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GianBaal's Avatar


GianBaal
03.18.2012 , 11:30 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by swooshien View Post
yeah ok but thats not really a problem since you dont have to make more than 4 (or 8 with 1.2 but you get more medals then anyway)
Just kiddin', dude. Actually it is good you guys get a buff, since someone has to compensate for my then weak dmg in rated warzones, lol
Please ignore my bad english. I'm a non-native speaker.

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Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.18.2012 , 11:31 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
No, it isn't. A proc is being changed from RNG to a predictable number, that's it. Hybrid spec tank/dps Powertech is being nerfed because the dps cylinder will be required for the Rail Shot proc in 1.2. Pyro Powertech will actually be better.
Please just stop.

It's not going to be better at all. It might just not be terribly gimped.

We're going to be using Rapid Shots a LOT more, or spend most fights overheated.

Either way you cut it, though, it's a nerf to both our sustained dps and burst.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Caelrie's Avatar


Caelrie
03.18.2012 , 11:35 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Zanxscarce View Post

Hell, I am tank spec'd in my assassin with stalker (dps) gear. I can literally parry/resist/minimize everything while nuking an opponent, carry a ball, force pull, and force speed. And once legacy is out, force choke you.
You won't be force choking anyone in a warzone.

GuardianDW's Avatar


GuardianDW
03.18.2012 , 11:39 PM | #65
My first character is a 50 Juggernaut, has been Battlemaster since mid January.

If one wishes to be a guard bot and a one-trick pony (ball runner in ONE warzone), then roll Jug. Be prepared to die a lot unless a healer adopts you and is always with you in the warzone. Sure you can generate four additional medals via taunt (the 4th would take consistent and constant use of the taunt during the match), but you will be at a disadvantage against other classes. This is if you roll a DPS Jug.

As an Immortal Jug, your damage will be a third (or worse) of a DPS Jug's (which is already lower than other dps classes'), without your defenses being correspondingly higher. Effectively, most attacks from most characters will cut through (ignore) your Defense and Shield Ratings. Only your armor mitigation will apply. You are a free kill for anyone. The most you can do to them is drag it out a little bit and irritate them with choke, push, snare, and ImRoar; you will not seriously threaten any other character that has two braincells to create friction with.

If you want to PVP as a melee dps, Mythic is clearly indicating you should roll Marauder. The patch notes are buffing Maras and doing nothing for Jugs. DPS Jug vs DPS Mara, you are at a significant disadvantage. Mara hits harder and has several reset or I-WIN tools to guarantee a seriously major advantage in the engagement. If you are winning, they can vanish and reset against you, or pop the "Take No Damage" button without *any* penalty to their outgoing damage levels. Another of their abilities generates self-heals for a period.

A Jug supported by a healer (preferably a Sorcerer healer who can bubble, speed, and pull) is a great Huttball runner. That's ONE of the FOUR Warzone types. And even in Huttball, if that healer isn't around, the Jug is easily dealt with by every other class type. In the other three (Alderaan, Voidstar, and the new zone that's coming) the Jug is a drag on their team *unless* they *again* have a dedicated healer. They will die a *lot*, and have difficulty staying in range to deal damage with the vast array of knockbacks, snares, and CC other classes have. The Jug's taunts and guard are close range abilities, and in guard's case again require a pocket healer.

There really is no circumstance except the very specific case of Huttball where a PVP team is better served by having a Jug over a Mara. If a team is willing to dedicate a pocket healer to a player, they'll get MUCH more mileage by putting that healer in a Mara's pocket and telling the Jug to go reroll. And, for the record, Inquisitor classes (sorceror/assassin) are WAY better ball runners than Jugs, particularly assassins. Bubble, speed, pull, and the "can't be CC'd/Knocked Back/Dotted" ability allow them to score *at will* once they're past the first fire obstacle. Which is trivial to get into position to do when most of the rest of the assassin's team is *also* Inquisitors.

It sucks. So much for pre-launch claims of "we want all classes to be viable"
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me

swooshien's Avatar


swooshien
03.18.2012 , 11:54 PM | #66
you just say jugger dps is lower than marauder, but this is surely not the case. last warzone i was in i scored twice the dps than anyone else in the game which actually happens quite often and i cannot recall any marauder ever dealing more dmg than me (i did see other classes dealing more damage tho). you are obviously doing something wrong. marauder might have a slight survivability advantage with their cooldowns but juggernauts get a new defense cooldown with 1.2. usability-wise marauder is more group supportive with their group speed buff but juggernaut is more flexible with his multiple charges but that doesnt really make a lot of difference. overall i dont see marauders doing a better job in warzones than juggernauts, with the def stance the juggernaut has alot more long-time survivability than the marauder which is very important for alderaan/voidstar and also burst dmg wise juggernaut is simply better than marauder. maybe overall dmg marauder can beat a juggernaut, but not burst dmg wise, which is alot more important in any warzone than overall dmg.
Naomi - Sith Juggernaut
]╬╬╬╬╬╬(۝)ǁ█خ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓)

GianBaal's Avatar


GianBaal
03.18.2012 , 11:56 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by GuardianDW View Post
My first character is a 50 Juggernaut, has been Battlemaster since mid January.

If one wishes to be a guard bot and a one-trick pony (ball runner in ONE warzone), then roll Jug. Be prepared to die a lot unless a healer adopts you and is always with you in the warzone. Sure you can generate four additional medals via taunt (the 4th would take consistent and constant use of the taunt during the match), but you will be at a disadvantage against other classes. This is if you roll a DPS Jug.

As an Immortal Jug, your damage will be a third (or worse) of a DPS Jug's (which is already lower than other dps classes'), without your defenses being correspondingly higher. Effectively, most attacks from most characters will cut through (ignore) your Defense and Shield Ratings. Only your armor mitigation will apply. You are a free kill for anyone. The most you can do to them is drag it out a little bit and irritate them with choke, push, snare, and ImRoar; you will not seriously threaten any other character that has two braincells to create friction with.

If you want to PVP as a melee dps, Mythic is clearly indicating you should roll Marauder. The patch notes are buffing Maras and doing nothing for Jugs. DPS Jug vs DPS Mara, you are at a significant disadvantage. Mara hits harder and has several reset or I-WIN tools to guarantee a seriously major advantage in the engagement. If you are winning, they can vanish and reset against you, or pop the "Take No Damage" button without *any* penalty to their outgoing damage levels. Another of their abilities generates self-heals for a period.

A Jug supported by a healer (preferably a Sorcerer healer who can bubble, speed, and pull) is a great Huttball runner. That's ONE of the FOUR Warzone types. And even in Huttball, if that healer isn't around, the Jug is easily dealt with by every other class type. In the other three (Alderaan, Voidstar, and the new zone that's coming) the Jug is a drag on their team *unless* they *again* have a dedicated healer. They will die a *lot*, and have difficulty staying in range to deal damage with the vast array of knockbacks, snares, and CC other classes have. The Jug's taunts and guard are close range abilities, and in guard's case again require a pocket healer.

There really is no circumstance except the very specific case of Huttball where a PVP team is better served by having a Jug over a Mara. If a team is willing to dedicate a pocket healer to a player, they'll get MUCH more mileage by putting that healer in a Mara's pocket and telling the Jug to go reroll. And, for the record, Inquisitor classes (sorceror/assassin) are WAY better ball runners than Jugs, particularly assassins. Bubble, speed, pull, and the "can't be CC'd/Knocked Back/Dotted" ability allow them to score *at will* once they're past the first fire obstacle. Which is trivial to get into position to do when most of the rest of the assassin's team is *also* Inquisitors.

It sucks. So much for pre-launch claims of "we want all classes to be viable"
A wall of text doesn't make an obvious troll less recognizeable m8. No one will fall for that.
Please ignore my bad english. I'm a non-native speaker.

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Cempa's Avatar


Cempa
03.19.2012 , 12:08 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Xaero View Post
I play a vengeance specced juggernaut. Full Columi PVE gear plus tier3 PVE weapon. Pardon but I destroy all people in several seconds with Impale->Force Scream->Vicious Throw and Smash. All attacks do over 2k while Force Scream up to 4k.

Sorry but some people here are talking nonsense. Until combat parser/logger is available to use there is no way to check how far DPS can go.
Shatter?

Dregas's Avatar


Dregas
03.19.2012 , 12:16 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by GianBaal View Post
A wall of text doesn't make an obvious troll less recognizeable m8. No one will fall for that.
I have no idea how you can read what he typed out and start trashing him for it. All of what he said is straight up truth. I urge anyone who has not played a juggernaut or is on the fence about playing one to read said post because it will describe 90% of your game play experience both leveling and at 50. You might have the good odd match here or there against super under geared people or some lowbies. But in reality the juggernaut is so gimped it makes me sad. All the promises of buffing the survivability of the class...and then 1.2 gets here...nothing. I played this class to enjoy the role of someone powerful and threatening, not to be the weakest class in the game whose only role in pvp is taunt bot and free kill.

Larishet's Avatar


Larishet
03.19.2012 , 12:19 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
You're absolutely right, no samurai in the history of the world has ever used more than 1 blade at a time.
They did but the off-hand carried a shorter sword...more like a long knife.