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Time to end Biochem reusables

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Time to end Biochem reusables
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Verdakk's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 12:31 PM | #351
Quote: Originally Posted by Archiwizard View Post
This doesn't take a genious to figure out reuasables don't work every gamer who takes an active role in raiding and pvp etc has now got a permabuff and an influx of money created by all those people who don't have biochem buying stims from them.

If I play for say 6 hours a day (basically my free time) it would cost me on my server for the cheapest stims 60,000 - 90,000 credits perday in order to have an equal standing with biochemist. I understand why you would want to either give buffs to other crafting or make everyone get reusables but I think you are wrong, this defeats the purpose of crafting and MMO's in general.

You should not be being handed stuff you should have to work for it! Look at EVE as an example this is a huge MMO still subbed and growing all the time. Putting aside other issues with that game it got one thing right you want something you gotta go get it and no ones going to give you it for nothing everything from a booster to a spacecraft costs you in that game and when it's gone it's gone. 3rd person MMO's have a vast amount to learn from a sandbox game like this.

The reason games like this struggle and wither is because they cater to the lazy who hide behind excuses. The only reason WoW survives is because it's a fall back with history but it is as guilty as all the rest. I believe most people would welcome a more challenging game for all it's aspects not just combat although they could do with buffing nightmare to the point at which it wakes small children in the night crying.

This might appear to be a rant and it is but it angers me somewhat when I read some peoples narrow minded approach to solving problems, the kind of people who use cellotape to fix a severed limb. My feelings on Biochem are this, reusables have to go they should be replaced by some kind of secondary stim that can be injected to increase the longevity of the biochemists buff from 2 to 4 hours in addition they should add crittable stims which have advanced stats which in turn can also be buffed in length by a biochemists personal stim buffer. I reckon this would keep most biochemists happy and add a whole new layer to the game in fact why stop there have combinational stims different ingredient stims you can pruchase and inject yourself in a certain order to individualise the buff you get the possibilities are endless.

The overall learing point is this making something called consumables reusable is probably the most oximoronic thing I have ever seen and concidering it's not the first time this mistake has been made I have lost a degree of faith in this game and it's developers who need to start thinking outside the box and remembering that just because something seems complicated it's the learning that keeps people busy and interested we all enjoy experimenting and finding something individual how they want to play.
Your approach is narrow minded so I will keep it simple for you.

Want the benefits? Roll biochem.

All other crafting professions are getting buffed. Biochem has been nerfed over and over again.

Applying your logic means when you craft a crit orange piece I get to use it for two hours and then it disappears. The QQ on something like that would be ridiculous.

It was revolutionary for a crafting profession that makes consumables to be able to make permanent things rather than being a manufacturing plant and one of the few things BW did good. All other crafting professions create permanent solutions for the player base. Mods, augments, hilts the list goes on and on. So your logic and argument is a fallacy beyond comprehension.

Quit your whining and roll biochem if you want. If not, in 1.2 if your a synthweaver or whatever, you will be making equally usable stuff that does not require your profession to use it.

Verdakk's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 12:35 PM | #352
Quote: Originally Posted by Fdzzaigl View Post
"Reusable" just shouldn't mean "Infinitely usable".

Make them have 5-10 uses and make them last through death (for stims) and be more powerful than regular ones.

Adrenals should be made in stacks of 5-10 as well, they're currently not worth buying for non-biochem (or they're worth it but just cost you your skin for 15 seconds of power).

Right now BioChem is still far more powerful than any other crafting profession, simply because of the infinite bonuses you get on stims, while others have to spend upwards of 20K for a single stim.

By comparison, I'm an armormech, and sell Dalarian smuggler items, which require both a Biometric Alloy and purple Perpetual Energy Cell (from raids / hardmodes) for 70k max.

You can sell stims that don't require any exotic crafting materials for 20k a pop (on my server) while comparable blues from other professions aren't even being bought, and purples require significant effort.

You have it good, even without the dang reusables.

The mats required are rediculous to try and make a profit, which you can barely do.

Or how about I get 5-10 uses out of a belt you make for me? How will that fancy you?

I was all for nerfing biochem till I rolled it. I find it funny that all the mouthbreathers who want it nerfed again aren't biochemists. They think this **** just falls out of the sky and we have it so good.

It took me two weeks and over 2 million credits to get my implants made. Not to mention how much money in mats I lost.

/end thread

HanzBlix's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 01:49 PM | #353
I have a biochemist. It's stupid easy to make awesome consumables, more work to make implants (as it should be), and makes stupid credits on the GTN selling.

In it's current state, it's head and shoulder better than any other profession. Having three different crew skills (as I do), tells you just how ridiculous it is comparitively. The answer isn't to make all the other crew skills OP as well, the answer it to tone one down to reality.

This is pretty much accepted to be true by the creators of the game, and it's going to happen. If you think bio is going to be nerfed into oblivion and suck, by all means take a different crew skill.... I bet you won't, because biochem will still be l337 even without reusables.

Even purple adrenals (current) will still be useful at later levels, as unless they increase the amount crafted for mats used, they will never be viable to sell in mass quantities.

vassilbg's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 01:56 PM | #354
I have Biochem, Bioanalysis, and Diplomacy all at 400.

At the rate they are going, unless there are some AMAZING changes come 1.2, I am dropping all 3 and picking up something else.

The ONLY reason I picked biochem was for the reusable stims, adrenals, and med packs. If they are gonna take that away, then whats the point of holding on to a crew skill that has been nerfed so badly?

Macabakur's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 01:59 PM | #355
but I just made my rakata stim, health pack and attack adrenal.. pew pew.. I wanna keep em!

but as a caveat to something a tad different.. why no rakata implants? synth's get rakata armor.. why not me..

Macabakur's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 02:09 PM | #356
Quote: Originally Posted by Archiwizard View Post
This doesn't take a genious to figure out reuasables don't work every gamer who takes an active role in raiding and pvp etc has now got a permabuff and an influx of money created by all those people who don't have biochem buying stims from them..
well, I for one give mine away usually. Blue stims, to people I do hardmodes with. It really isn't as cheap as alot of people think it is, farming bioanal mats is just as expensive as any other trade profession. We're not different, every one has a specialty, if I was a synth and a jedi I could make myself a sick 2 piece armor set. Or, artifice, they have crystals and all that other stuff.

Every profession has a, "that" profession only specialty, you can't really say Bio is all that much better than any other. I don't think at least. As, I have a 400 synth as well. and I can make a heck of alot more money on him than on bio. Ya, I could sell stims I guess. but meh. That's lame, theyre a two hour buff.. I'd rather just give one or two out to the people I feel need them the most in the group. Maybe, some people are multi creditillionars. (as that's the term I came up with, it sucks, I know, sorry :P) but that's not me.

BacklashEH's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 02:30 PM | #357
The fix to biochem is a real simple one, that is get rid of single use consumables.

If it's purple it's an infinite use for biochem, its 100 or more use for anyone else. If it's blue, make it a 25 or 50 use item. People wouldn't have to do biochem on all of their characters anymore and you'd probably be able to sell more of your items if they weren't single use.

If you want to get real crazy, have armorsmith make aim based buffs, gunsmith cunning based, synth strength based, and artiface willpower based, so you spread out the consumables abit.

If you want to get even more insane, have synthweave make bags instead of or in addition to buying inventory spots from the game itself like every other mmo does with their sewing class.

I enjoy this game, the crafting in it is absolutely terrible though.

UncleJimbo's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 02:34 PM | #358
I do not know on what messed up servers you guys are, but I for one undercut the market to get them accessible to all.
The secret of stims to be cheap, is the slicing missions. If you find them at a reasonable price it lets you craft them and keep prices low, but you need a healthy minded community to do that.

I see some greedy players that start to sell those missions for 20k by buying all the missions on the market at lower prices and stay with them for weeks because they face something that they did not expect to see: player that have a brain.

So I think if more player worked together, these would not be so outrageously priced.

P.S. Lets see when 1.2 hits and all the modable gear will hit the market. Prices will be well over hundreds of thousands of credits ans some of them will be the fellow posters that cried that biochem items are to expensive

thewatcheruatu's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 02:44 PM | #359
For me, the materials requirements on biochem items started to feel kind of ridiculous the further and further I got into the game. Considering, you're making consumables. In the 40s, I actually got to a point where I really just stopped making myself medpacks altogether and started using the ones that drop as loot, because I could have never kept my supply of Premiums adequate. Forget Prototype quality--I never even bothered to try reverse engineering for those. And I gather absolutely everything I see when I'm out adventuring and go out of my way to kill most strong creatures I see.

By comparison, I could probably level cybertech, armstech, and armormech using the results of one character scavenging while adventuring, and I'd be swimming in products that don't ever get consumed.

I honestly don't know how other people are doing it, and to be honest, it seems like what most people dislike are the reusable adrenals, which--I'll agree--is pretty much the only way anybody could afford to actually use adrenals at all. But as to all of these people talking about making boucoup profit on these things...I'm amazed, because I can barely make enough for myself, let alone make enough to sell in big stacks on the GTN.

Anyway, though I agree that the products you make are quite nice, the amount of farming you have to do to make those products is out of line, I think. That's why the reusables always seemed like a good idea to me. If that makes it a must-have crafting skill for tanks in this game, then so be it.

Really, though, I think they should just simplify and reduce the materials requirements for biochem products to make Premium and Prototype consumables more reasonable. I mean, you should never be paying 20k for something that you're going to burn off in about two minutes of playing the game. That's ridiculous.
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Proppa's Avatar

03.16.2012 , 02:48 PM | #360
I think the biochem "standard" re-usables should be useable by everyone, not just those with biochem spec. Then make the Rakata require biochem. Like other crafts, Cybertech etc all the mods/armouring are tradeable apart from the Rakata style bits.
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