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Expertise scales better for healers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Expertise scales better for healers

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
03.15.2012 , 06:20 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Ricky View Post
I'm whining like I've never whined before.
I've stopped replying to your arguments because you obviously read what you want to read even though what you read is wrong. I'll leave with this:

Rated wf's will determine if healing is too powerful. If we see many healer heavy top rated teams, then you'll be right. I doubt it though.

Until then ... keep the qq up. One day the great bioware in the sky just might listen to you.
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

Darth_Ricky's Avatar


Darth_Ricky
03.15.2012 , 07:28 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
I've stopped replying to your arguments because you obviously read what you want to read even though what you read is wrong. I'll leave with this:

Rated wf's will determine if healing is too powerful. If we see many healer heavy top rated teams, then you'll be right. I doubt it though.

Until then ... keep the qq up. One day the great bioware in the sky just might listen to you.
number's that prove u wrong = QQ?

lol ok madbro
Unsubbed, see u where the pvp is at

iM_TeHCno's Avatar


iM_TeHCno
03.15.2012 , 07:37 PM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Dzhokhar View Post
Trauma doesn't change the fact that healing scales better with expertise than damage. Trauma exists to balance healing between PvP and PvE. It does not affect the scaling of healing relative to damage within PvP as affected by Expertise. (In other words: Even if healing is balanced now, as people acquire more Expertise, healing will get better faster than damage does because of the way Expertise works and Trauma doesn't change that.)

Personally, I don't think Expertise can be fixed as a single PvP megastat. If BioWare were to remove the healing buff from Expertise, healers wouldn't get any benefit from Expertise. Similarly, if the damage reduction were removed, tanks wouldn't get any benefit.

In my opinion, the correct solution is to eliminate expertise and give PvP gear PvP-only values for the normal PvE stats. For example, a piece of gear might have "+90(25) Endurance", where the item gives 90 endurance in both PvE and PvP, and an additional 25 Endurance in PvP only (essentially in Warzones and designated PvP areas like Ilum and Outlaw's Den). This way, items can have stats that are applicable to a specific class/role and any side effects of having a PvP megastat are avoided.
This is all invalid in the fact that you are complaining heals are scaling better than damage......

DUH?!

As a healer I watch my teammate get jumped by an operative, a marauder, and get focused by a positioned sorc..... If my healing only scaled EVENLY with 1 of their damage ouputs... even with guard that person is dying relatively fast. Heals>Damage... Working as intended.

Bullsith's Avatar


Bullsith
03.15.2012 , 07:53 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by iM_TeHCno View Post
This is all invalid in the fact that you are complaining heals are scaling better than damage......

DUH?!

As a healer I watch my teammate get jumped by an operative, a marauder, and get focused by a positioned sorc..... If my healing only scaled EVENLY with 1 of their damage ouputs... even with guard that person is dying relatively fast. Heals>Damage... Working as intended.
Oh right, I mean that's ok, you outhealing 2 dps, what happens when there's two of you? Needs 4 dps to take someone down? But what happens when there's 5 of you, something happening a lot lately?

Get a clue. Healing is too powerful, and not because the amount it heals for but the simplicity involved in healing and the reduced threats that should hinder healers such as interrupts are a joke in SWTOR.

DUH!
Choices need to matter! If I die I need to live with it. Hardcore!

Caelrie's Avatar


Caelrie
03.15.2012 , 08:25 PM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by Bullsith View Post

Get a clue. Healing is too powerful, and not because the amount it heals for but the simplicity involved in healing and the reduced threats that should hinder healers such as interrupts are a joke in SWTOR.

DUH!
Between interrupts, pulls, knockbacks, stuns, knockdowns and pushes, there are MORE interrupts in SWTOR than in WoW. If you think healing in PvP is easier here than there, you've never tried it.

BrutalPain's Avatar


BrutalPain
03.16.2012 , 03:55 AM | #156
I just cant understand what is the point of this thread. Expertise scales better for healers so what?

Battilea's Avatar


Battilea
03.16.2012 , 04:19 AM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by BrutalPain View Post
I just cant understand what is the point of this thread. Expertise scales better for healers so what?
Imagine if you had 2 classes. They are equal at level 1. But one scales faster than the other. So by level 50, the faster scaling class outdoes the other, and things are therefore no longer balanced. The faster scaling class will be the one people play, since it is more powerful. In MMOs, you can typically have a class start out weaker, take a bit to come into its own, but at the end, you need them to be relatively balanced.

Now, not saying this is the case with healers or that it isn't. To say it is a problem would mean that classes are balanced at some point and that any scaling issues that exist are sufficiently large so as to create a notable difference in performance between the classes.

MrXen's Avatar


MrXen
03.16.2012 , 04:28 AM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by Demarcc View Post
Answers in bold.
According to your model of 2400 heal (normal non-crit) every 1.7 seconds, I would have to be doing more than 1411.7 damage per second to you minimum (pretending you aren't critting heals, or using trinkets, or sneaking instant casts between). You're saying I'm bad as a DPS if I can't do that on top of interrupting all your heals (with the 1 interrupt on 12 second cooldown)?? Am I getting that right? You also saying that you don't have a stun of your own? Or a stealth ability to escape as an OP healer? Wow. I was gloriously mistaken.


Rofl cynical tone aside, thanks for proving my point even further with your idiocy.


Side note: the 30% healing debuff is a separate ruleset for pvp because if healers could heal as well as they can in PVE encounters then I wouldn't even be here trying to explain to you why they are too strong, I would have quit, and there would be no non-healer pvp'er in existence. Why you ask (because you are dense)?? Because without the 30% debuff Bioware didn't even need player input to realize healers were wayyyy too strong in pvp.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khoraji View Post
Sorcs/operatives/mercs can also heal. So those DPS classes get 2 different 10 percent bonuses as well. Not to mention as a dedicated healer, the 10% damage bonus rarely comes into play. Keep pretending like expertise mechanics is why you can't kill someone.

3 basic heals plus a panic button huh? Where are these 3 basic heals that will negate 4-7k crits by a DPS?

Merc Healer:
Option 1- Healing Scan: 1.5 second heal with a 12 second cooldown that normally goes off for around 2-3k (plus a very small HoT)

Option 2 - Rapid Scan: 2 Second heal with no cooldown and hits for around 2-5k depending on adrenals and cooldowns are popped. Usually its around 2500 without a crit.

where is the 3rd basic heal? thought so.

Emergency Option: Emergency Scan which is a weaker heal than Rapid Scan and has a 21 second cooldown.

I'm sorry sir, I wasn't aware that DPS classes critted for 4000-7000 damage all the time, I always thought those stats at the end of a warzone that say "biggest hit" in the damage section indicated the biggest hits all game (usually around 3600-5200 from the hundreds of warzones I've done). In all honesty, never have I even seen a 6,000 damage crit in pvp, very realistic damage you throw out there.


Also I find it interesting that you said there is no third option yet there are 3 healing abilities listed there, plus you forgot to mention kolto missile and kolto shell as emergencies.


And you say that a DPS gets 2 10% bonuses? In terms of what the character sheet says everyone gets 3 bonuses, yes, we can all read that. Well I got an example for you: say a healer is trying to kill a DPS and vice versa (a classic 1v1 scenario).


The healer expertise situational advantage:
1) reduces DPS'ers incoming damage by 10%
2) increases what little damage he has by 10%
3) increases the healing he outputs on himself by 10%


The DPS expertise situational advantage:
1) increases the damage he has by 10%
2) reduces the damage he takes from the healer by 10%



The healer always gets an extra footing: because its an unfair advantage. Surprise.

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
03.16.2012 , 04:30 AM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Ricky View Post
number's that prove u wrong = QQ?

lol ok madbro
Why would I be mad? If anything I feel sorry for you.

I've already shown that some dps abilities have higher coefficients that the heals for example: Project 1.85 > dark heal 1.75. In any case ... keep trolling bro. One day some dev might actually read your posts and have a good laugh. I know I did.
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

BrutalPain's Avatar


BrutalPain
03.16.2012 , 04:56 AM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by Battilea View Post
Imagine if you had 2 classes. They are equal at level 1. But one scales faster than the other. So by level 50, the faster scaling class outdoes the other, and things are therefore no longer balanced. The faster scaling class will be the one people play, since it is more powerful. In MMOs, you can typically have a class start out weaker, take a bit to come into its own, but at the end, you need them to be relatively balanced.

Now, not saying this is the case with healers or that it isn't. To say it is a problem would mean that classes are balanced at some point and that any scaling issues that exist are sufficiently large so as to create a notable difference in performance between the classes.
I can imagine if sorcerers could 1shot any classes and that would be imba. Its not about imaginations lol. And they are not equal at lvl1, they are balanced to 50 BW stated this. And yes if you palyed 1-49 wz its not balanced but 50 seems balanced to me. I killed the healers without any expertise and in full BM gear i kill full BM geared healers.

Scaling is just a factor of the game and yeah scaling gives more for 1 to others. Op Supposed that healers heal up with the same amount ad a DPS dmg. And they are mirrors but one is healing one id damaging. From my point of view they are not mirrors they are unique.
If a class has A ability and another has B, A hits for 500 and B hits for 1000 from 100% crit multipliar ability B will get double the benefit. Classes are not heal and dmg for the same amount every ability has its unique scaling. Not to mention these are only stats. Stats are just a factor in balancing with many others.
And Op completely ignore diminishing returns on stats just to mention.