Will Shadows Shine or Fall?

Shadow talents and skills are always going to be some akward attempt to balance stealth ganker with melee caster with melee tank while having to burn up talents points for abilities that mimic roles that are inherent for other classes.

While light armor can be made passable with tank stance for the dps specs when combined with cooldowns its behind dps pt/sentinel. The tank stance is in a decent place atm I'd agree but I think the class is always going to be in flux between strong and weak due to how its designed. Vans are always going to fall back on higher burst and guardians on unkillable/high utility. When the devs are messing with Shadow talents the concern will always be to make the concept viable first then to not breaking the other two widly differing class roles. Not that they can't make it all work, just that I don't expect them to pull it off after I took that ride with release version wow shaman for several years.

Except for "Would I rather have a Shadow over X" in Huttball, Shadow will come on top in EVERY case lol.

Can't think of it as a deathmatch, that's where the fallacy comes.

You've been saying that since 8th grade. So, at least 2 years now.

I though only a 5% damage reduction could be increased to 10% or so. I agree that to much suvivability would be bad if they increase it, I dont think we need more, maybe just do a little less damage as we can put out a lot with modded dps gear.

I agree that players are almost pushed into darkness for what you said, the other two just are not that strong. I would like maybe a little more in the survival category but if not an increase in damage for more sustained DPS.

whatever happens ill still play the class I love it.

In huttball I would take both a JKG and a Vanguard over KC shadow.
-better mobility
-better survivability

In huttball I would take a sentinel and a scrapper over a Infil Shadow.
-better burst & cc (scrapper)
-better mobility & utility (sentinel)
-better survivability (both)

In huttball I would take any ranged dps or assault Vanguard over a balance shadow.
-fully ranged is essential to controlling mid
-snipers & commandos have better survivability (arguably sages as well)
-sages/commandos can offheal
-for comparison semi melee assaultvg is more survivable, better burst, on demand dot damage and gets pull

Yes totally, the harder you press your buttons the more Damage you do. So all this Tank Shadows doing way more Damage then an tank specced Juggernaut or Powertech because they are that good at their Rotation?

Thanks for clearing that up, i though it might be because of stupid OP Procs. Guess i was wrong.....

really well put, nice job sir.

Hahahaha, fail.

This isn't a dps game dude, learn the game.

A shadow is a must in every huttball game for sure. Read my earlier post and learn the game please before posting such non-sense.

PS...AOE taunt >>> off heal.

Shadow will always be the first one to the huttball at the beginning of the match
Shadow can STEALTH at endzone or middle to control ball possession and passing.
Shadow can force speed w/ ball to get past obstacles and better positioning for passing
Shadow can pop RESILIENCE to prevent numerous things like stunning on obstacles (no other class can do this)

In huttball you probably won't be carrying the ball for more than...say 10 seconds? You're definitely not going to be tank walking it to the end zone.

Shadows are quick, and can be where they need to be in stealth.

Guess what one of the best classes to camp the endzone is?? Shadow.

Shadow wins huttball over any other AC, period.

This is all purely offensive. Honestly, if your'e talking about classes that you need to score the ball, only bring sages and knights and forget the other classes. Why bother even passing when you can grip / leap across the board? That issue is little to do with our class lacking something as much as the state of movement effects in WZ.

I would disagree with mobility for KC shadows and you left out many things we do better. resilience alone makes us better for this stuff as its an on demand immunity, and with force speed, you can break any roots. KC shadows have some of the best tricks for getting out of CC. We're the equivalent of a tight end in football.

Stuff you can do, and stuff you should be doing in WZ's are two very different things. This is more of the rock paper scissors approach, and only looks at the class on paper. You can play the *** for tat game all day, but you're just saying 'x is better than x' without any sort of context, which is really just a logical fallacy and actually proves nothing.

The 'who would you rather have' question is really pointless. Let's take one situation where this question can be definitely answered: "Who would you rather have carrying the ball in Huttball". The answer is pretty much unambigiously a Juggernaut because of their survivality + ball movement ability. So case solved, no need for anyone else to ever touch the ball in your awesome 8 man premade right? What if your Juggernaut died or if he's fighting someone halfway across the map? Do you just stop everything you're doing until he gets back? What if the other team has the ball? Do you just politely ask them to hand it over to your Juggernaut?

In a realistic scenario, Darkness Assassins are one of the top candidate for the ball runner because if you don't have the ball, they do enough DPS to actually take the ball back. They can Force Pull someone into a fire pit or at least prevent a goal. If they get the ball, they're certainly very durable and although they can't move as fast as a charge class, their movement abilities are not dependent on enemy/ally positions, and Force Shroud prevents the grapple into pit strat which can at least delay anyone else from scoring. Yes if you've some ideal case where you can always pass the ball to a Juggernaut and never let the enemy get the ball you would say Assassins don't bring much to Huttball, but in that case you'd never lose so why does it even matter?