Will Shadows Shine or Fall?

I'll give you guys the cliff's notes version:

I'm really insecure about my chosen class in rated games.

/thread

Your mind is in Warcraft, its light Armor not cloth. Tank Shadows actually get a better resistance than cloths classes in Warcraft lol.

The Armor a Shadow Tank has is good enough with 2 defense relics then uses,

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dEsVsc4/resilience

http://www.torhead.com/ability/d0UsepC/deflection

then can use,

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9iqr4...s-mind-control

Need to us http://www.torhead.com/ability/3BGAfHW/kinetic-ward

to proc http://www.torhead.com/ability/7VZVW...ield-generator

What hurts a Shadow Tank is Tech damage, classes like Agents or Merc. That will be the kryptonite to a Shadow Tank in Ranked Matches.

Every class has a counter, Shadow's is Tech damage.

That does not mean they suck, it just means there is a counter.

Every class has one, all good groups will focus on it.

I just want to throw out there that I think a lot of you are forgetting a big factor with Force pull vs. Leap. Force Pull is an arched path to a point, leap and BH/Trooper pull are a straight line. Has no one ever used jump pulls before? I can literally throw people instead of just pulling them. A well timed jump+pull can throw people off ledges or into hazards as it can add about a meter to the distance.

Just thought I'd add that to the conversation.

Well out of the three trees only one is really considered OP, and that spec relies so much on the setup of one ability. Deceptions are flashy but are by far the weakest dps in the game, it has good burst but after that is gone so is your force. I cant really speak for madness I only dabbled in it with a hybrid before that was changed.

A lot of the argument comes down to utility and our ability to survive in a warzone. Our force speed puts us in the category of best ball carrier when speced for tank, though a good team will save on the cc and stun me when I get this off. Our stealth has been called cheap but for the dps its one of the few things they can use to escape a situation alive. We seem to be the only class that has an interupt, knock back, stun (pull if speced, instant whirlwind if speced) so good utility.

Does this class need a nerf, no. Does it need balance yes, right now only one tree is worth using. Now how Bioware addresses this will be interesting and well as op said make the class shine or fail. The tanking tree needs to be more tank like with maybe a little damage tweak maybe X damage reduction when in the tanking stance. Deception just needs more defense.

my two cents bring on the hate

I actually disagree with you Powerr.

I think shadows will be amazing in rated warzones. You seem to base everything off of a deathmatch style game. Unfortunately that is just not what this game is.

In Huttball, there is no better AC than shadow/assassin. They can literally do everything, and then they can stealth. They will get to the ball first in every match. They can skip every single obstacle. They can stealth to hold middle to pick up ball after a score or stealth to wait at end zone for a pass.

Huttball alone is enough reason that Shadows will shine, but they hold their own in Alderaan and Voidstar as well.

Alderaan and Voidstar, obviously stealth to take an underguarded node. This can be done by ops/gs as well. However shadows have two taunts, one of which is AOE, which is beyond invaluable...much more so than anything an ops/gs can bring to the table.

You say they are the squishiest AC out there, I say that's bs. Resilience alone tops any other AC for "squishiness". Add force cloak on top of it and I don't really see how you can die unless your abilities are on cool down.

You're argument to say "my team will instantly taunt you" is a horrible argument. You can say that about any dps class. The fact that you have to make a point to taunt the shadow as opposed to other classes would show that the Shadow is MORE of a threat, not less. If all the focus is on you to taunt you and keep you out of play as a shadow, that gives your teammates more freedom to do what they need to do.

Two taunts, one being AOE, on top of stealth, resilience, force sprint, force cloak, and pretty darn good burst (if not taunted), i see hard pressed to see how a Shadow isn't a key player in any warzone.

You are a good player Powerr, but unfortunately your arguments are completely flawed.

I do that all the time, jump-pulling people in huttball has saved so many goals.

I use the environment to assassinate people all the time. pulled into fire, kicked to be knocked down, then followed with a knockback when they crawl to the edge, and if needed, you can still throw a stun at them. This is almost certain to kill anyone who isn't getting spammed heals or blowing a major cooldown (here's looking at you marauders).

The beauty is our control. I really feel like shadows are the primary field control class. The spammable aoe slows, the 'one of every type of cc' kit (wtb root attached to force slow). Spinning kick gives very little resolve for the effect it has. I can keep going.

It's not just the utility, its relatively easy to use utility. If anything, our biggest problem is things outside of of 15 yards or so. But that's our foil. We have to be quick on our feet to be good at shadows.

I say it again, if you're looking at this game in terms of rock paper scissors, you're perspective is outdated. If anything, bioware has done a few things well, and the actual objective points in the WZ's are great sources of action, and I think this will be especially true in rated WZ.

There is already a damage penalty for being in combat tech. Opponents really wouldn't like shadows that gained more survivability instead of damage. With the kit we have, it would just make us more effective at objectives, almost absurdly so.

I'd love more survivability. My dream would be to make shields use a no brainer, but I think that would really put us over the top.

I will say this, I do think the KC tree is the strongest by far, and people may get pigeonholed into playing it, as the other two trees aren't the strongest. I do think that they're designed farily well though, they don't need any new abilities, just value tweaks. A buff in damage for Infs, and perhaps a change to force in balance to pbaoe / ranged aoe instead of gtaoe might make both of those trees much more usable.

If you play the "would I rather have?" game and are honest about it the shadow will pretty much never come out on top. Thats the point of this thread, because in ranked play that is exactly what happens eventully.

Hence the emphasis on specialist vs generalist.

what a waste of time

Agreed with OP in regards to deception and madness specs or whatever you fruity Jedi call your specs. It's a shame that a class named an assassin is really incapable of...assassinating unless given the perfect conditions. I'd love to see BW do something in regards to these specs, perhaps give deception some more burst and less proc dependancy, and then perhaps some type of dispell dot protection for Madness builds.

I do, however, think Darkness is more than adequate in it's currect state. I'm starting to see a lot more folks jump aboard the nerf darkness bandwagon and for good measure, it's a really effective spec. No need to re-hash all the tools, survivability, and dps you get as darkness....it's enough to earn a spot in ranked imo. I am also worried it maybe nerfed, but I'd don't think it will get hit very hard, maybe just a little dps off the top.