Will Shadows Shine or Fall?

The font colour... why...

I'm not saying you cannot perform well. But as far as competetive premades go....

I know how it is, it kinda reminds me of Magus/Engineer situation from WAR (Eventhough Shadow is definitely better than the latter).

Take Powerr for example. He is concerned about class niche, but it's not like he won't get spots in premade for ranked WZ's.

However, I think they should really revamp our trees quite drastically. Increase tankability+CC at the cost of dmg/stealth, improve infil;s survavibility gosh darn it (Our supposedly main tree).

If we're talking about pugging and 1v1/1v2 situations, shadows are fine and dandy.

If we're talking about competetive 8-man premades (And this thread is all about it) they aren't.

But to Powerr and the rest agreeing with him all that don't matter, Shadow will be useless and it will lose all them things you have posted. Even though all them things will still happen, it will suck compared to all the other classes.

Shame on you pointing out what a Shadow does in PvP, you should be flogged.

The class needs deleted when ranked matches comes, everyone needs to reroll to a sent or trooper heals, or don't even think about playing.

Right guys?

/end sarcasm

Other than 'coz I liek it?'

- I can find my posts slightly quicker.

- I was raised by golden coloured Baboons.

...but I do not have to use it.

...nor do I always use it.

Meanwhile...

Not useless, but definitely not THE BEST choice for premade.

Reading comprehension please ;]

this (most likely)

The post seems to assume the other team will be out to shut you down and specifically target your weakness. 2 Mercs in Centurion armor spamming Tracer Missiles on a single Assassin will almost always shut him down too. Anyone can talk about some idealized hypothetical scenario where your class gets instantly killed/neutralized, though even in such cases, Darkness Assassins are one of the hardest classes to neutralize since they've decent range (far better than any other melee), a 20s root breaker, Force Shroud, and a ton of survivality. Yes, you can still be shut down, but if something can shut down an Assassin it can shut down at least any other melee.

My main is a WH shadow that I have played extensively in both infil and KC spec.

Unfortunately the vast majority of what Powerr is saying is correct, at least about infil spec. They are too squishy and the burst simply doesn't provide enough to any group. Infil is highly ccable, and can only use their control in 1v1 situations. The other dps classes simply provide the same benefits without the drawbacks and have more utility.

That being said I think infil will be viable in the low levels of ranked play, and of course you'll see the odd extremely well played infil spec (or even balance?) in high level as one aware person with an interrupt and stealth can always be used in ranked play.

KC has become my preferred pvp spec. As far as this not being viable in ranked play, I can see how powerr arrived at this conclusion based on the abilities available to other tanks. However, simply having been so successful in this spec leads me to believe this area is much more gray than the state of infil.

Simply put a tank/healer combo is a tank/healer combo. I roll full KC in BM tank gear that has been "dps'ed out". I can out dps the other tanks that are rolling full tank mode. And I can outsurvive the hybrid "tanks" which are the most common vanguards and guardians.

Powerr went pretty deeply into showing what the other tanks can do the same or better than KC, but there are 3 things that we have that they don't.

KC still has Stealth, Vanish, and Force Sprint (breaks roots in KC) in addition to good defensive cd's, amazing self heals (I get the 75k heal medal in grindy matches), and a pull.

While KC may not become dominant in high level ranked play in it's current state, I think that it's still got a lot of potential to be quite useful. Of course that could just be the self preservationist in me .

Surely.

Both classes have stealth, however scoundrels do frontloaded burst damage compared to shadows periodic burst capability. When you stick a scoundrel on a healer, that healer is handled in seconds without backup. Lets use a mercenary for example. Shadows CANNOT solo a mercenary healer, therefore to have a shadow attacking healers is relatively pointless without aid. Scoundrels can single handedly lock down a healer, enabling other members of the team to focus other primary targets. This is a devastating advantage.

The next advantage is their ability to off heal. Every group needs a player who can off heal your main healers, if you already have a vanguard and guardian, why would you slot a shadow dps? He would be even moreso the primary focused target. Shadows are the squishiest class in the game in their dps specs, with the worst cooldowns as well.

Shadow Defensives:
Deflection- Increases your ranged and melee defenses (white damage) by 50% for 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown
Resilience- Force and tech damage immunity for 3 seconds (can still be rooted/melee attack stunned) 60 second cooldown

Scoundrel Defensives
Defense Screen- 15 second absorb shield on 45sec cooldown compared to shadows 2 minute cooldown timer
Dodge- 3 second 100% defense chance 1min cooldown


The next advantage is the 7 second stun lock a scoundrel can do out of stealth, or 5.5 if you aren't using vanish. Shadows cannot use kick unless in stealth and if you do pop from stealth equates to 6 seconds of stun lock, 4 out of stealth on a very long cooldown (we all know how frustrating an extra second of stun is).

As far as synergy, the shadow doesnt specialize in doing damage immediately.
So think about this more in depth guys.

Sentinels do ramp up type damage
Scoundrels do frontloaded damage
Shadows do buildup damage

For those who aren't connecting the dots yet, to maximise killing targets perfectly you want a class that hits hard immediately, and a class that finishes. Sent with scoundrel is potentially the best melee setup for that.

I actually agree with most of this. The balance and infiltration specs do need work, I was never arguing that point. But powerr doesn't mention that guardians need targets for mobility, and those can LoS us, whereas on a map like civil war I would argue kinetic shadows are the king of mobility w/ a 20 second CD sprint.

Voidstar they also have more "mobility". While a guardian gets a cap and spams his aoe snare so his team can get a quick 4 cap win, a shadow has stealth and sprint and is arguably a bigger asset in voidstar play (along w/ aoe snare).

Guardians only really outshine, and marginally, shadows in huttball play. Not to mention a kinetic spec can sprint out of my snare and get away from AOE range; if a guardian is snared and he jumps, he is still snared.

And don't forget, this is an 8 man set up we're talking about, are you really going to have idiots stupid enough to hang around your endzone for me to jump to? Shadows mobility is consistent, guardians needs to be set up.