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Expertise scales better for healers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Expertise scales better for healers

Sookster's Avatar


Sookster
03.15.2012 , 12:47 PM | #61
OP isn't accounting -30% trauma?
Now that GoergZoeller is gone, buff operative.
SWTOR going F2P, now playing SWGemu.

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 12:48 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by jizerai View Post
His point is, obviously, that even if Expertise scales better for Healers, it is off-set by the fact that their healing in general is lower than the DPS. In fact, it's a lot lower.

If you simply refuse to see this as an argument, then you're the one acting the fool here.
Umm no that wasn't his point and if it was its not relevant to the topic, its not even the blogs point which makes no reference to absolute healing levels but refers to scaling so as gears improves they should theoretically get worse given the current levels of scaling not exactly rocket science you can just look at the character sheet.

Your statement that their healing is lower than the DPS though is utter rubbish I have no hard data but anecdotally I would say despite a lot of over healing which doesn't get counted healers are pretty much on a par or slightly ahead of DPS in total healing done despite a 30% trauma reduction. I have not problem healing through raw damage from any of the high damage classes, without interrupts, stuns etc I would fancy my chances against any dps class.
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
03.15.2012 , 12:50 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Digtahk View Post
Sorry are you in some sort of care program that quote is right out of the blog you are now re-linking. I understand english might not be your primary tool for communication but at least try and read a thread before making a complete fool out of yourself.....I will help you with a point by point break down....

1) Thread title - Expertise scales better for healers
2) You link blog post which shows Primary and secondary stats do not scale as well for healers
3) Blog clearly states expertise is not a primary or secondary stat so is not included
4) blog then goes on to say Expertise scales better to make up for lack of scaling of Primary and secondary stats
5) Hence you are agreeing with the OP - even though you don't have the basic understanding of your own blog to realise this.

For the record no one was arguing whether or not healers scaled better with increase in Primary or Secondary stats.

I will excuse your ignorance this time
Of course once someone disagrees with you they make a fool of themselves. Ad hominem attacks are for people without valid arguments.

It's obvious expertise scales better for healers or better said the removal of the trauma debuff scales better. The reason for this is because healing does not scale well to being with and needs to be compensated somewhere else.

The fact that you don't see this and many people have tried to explain it to you. My blog tries to make sense of some of the weird design decisions in the game.

And No I don't agree with the OP. Many of things he mention is misleading. Take this statement:

'1) Consider two players with 0 expertise: a DPS hits for 1000 damage, the defending player takes 1000 damage (ignore other Damage Reduction for now, please). The defending player hits back for 1000, and the DPS takes 1000 damage.

2) Now two players with 500 Expertise: a DPS hits for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the defending player takes 1000 damage. The defending player, of course, hits back for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the DPS takes 1000 damage. Net gain of zero, if both players have the same expertise'

This make no sense because when you get gear equivalent to 500 expertise. You would be hitting for more than 1000 damage. This is why you need to look at attribute scaling before even judging expertise.

P.S. I wrote those blogs. My understanding of the english language, even though it's not my primary language is just fine.
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

Demarcc's Avatar


Demarcc
03.15.2012 , 12:51 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Dzhokhar View Post
That blog post is extremely misleading. The differences in scaling that post claims to reveal are entirely accounted for by trauma.

There is no real difference in scaling with regular stats. What that chart does is apply trauma to the "bonus healing" instead of to the total healing. This method works because all healing abilities heal for x*(bonus healing). Unfortunately, you could also account for trauma by having the "bonus healing" equal the "bonus damage" and reduce x. Formulating things in this way, you can see that the scaling of healing with ordinary PvE stats is the same as the scaling of damage. Trauma exists to correct for the fact that x has to be larger for healing abilities in PvE than it has to be in PvP.
Your very wrong.

My healer has around 720 Bonus damage and 520ish bonus healing. Now obviously my stats dont change, the contribution allotment for healing is MUCH lower than the allotment for damage. Hence as I gear up more and more my healing bonus falls further and further behind my damage bonus.

Yeren's Avatar


Yeren
03.15.2012 , 12:51 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Digtahk View Post
Umm no that wasn't his point and if it was its not relevant to the topic, its not even the blogs point which makes no reference to absolute healing levels but refers to scaling so as gears improves they should theoretically get worse given the current levels of scaling not exactly rocket science you can just look at the character sheet.

Your statement that their healing is lower than the DPS though is utter rubbish I have no hard data but anecdotally I would say despite a lot of over healing which doesn't get counted healers are pretty much on a par or slightly ahead of DPS in total healing done despite a 30% trauma reduction. I have not problem healing through raw damage from any of the high damage classes, without interrupts, stuns etc I would fancy my chances against any dps class.
Take healing numbers with a grain of salt in warzones .... AOE heals do a great job of padding healing numbers. And cross healing too (healers healing healers)
"You can only punch a rancor's nose so many times before you realize there's got to be a better way" -- Han Solo

Metalmac's Avatar


Metalmac
03.15.2012 , 12:52 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Digtahk View Post
Umm no that wasn't his point and if it was its not relevant to the topic, its not even the blogs point which makes no reference to absolute healing levels but refers to scaling so as gears improves they should theoretically get worse given the current levels of scaling not exactly rocket science you can just look at the character sheet.

Your statement that their healing is lower than the DPS though is utter rubbish I have no hard data but anecdotally I would say despite a lot of over healing which doesn't get counted healers are pretty much on a par or slightly ahead of DPS in total healing done despite a 30% trauma reduction. I have not problem healing through raw damage from any of the high damage classes, without interrupts, stuns etc I would fancy my chances against any dps class.
LOL!!!!!

Not relevant to the topic!!!!!

He is absolutely correct you are clueless to the 30% debuff healers receive.

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 12:54 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post

It's obvious expertise scales better for healers
So you agree with the OP, all else being equal
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.

Yeren's Avatar


Yeren
03.15.2012 , 12:55 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
Of course once someone disagrees with you they make a fool of themselves. Ad hominem attacks are for people without valid arguments.

It's obvious expertise scales better for healers or better said the removal of the trauma debuff scales better. The reason for this is because healing does not scale well to being with and needs to be compensated somewhere else.

The fact that you don't see this and many people have tried to explain it to you. My blog tries to make sense of some of the weird design decisions in the game.

And No I don't agree with the OP. Many of things he mention is misleading. Take this statement:

'1) Consider two players with 0 expertise: a DPS hits for 1000 damage, the defending player takes 1000 damage (ignore other Damage Reduction for now, please). The defending player hits back for 1000, and the DPS takes 1000 damage.

2) Now two players with 500 Expertise: a DPS hits for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the defending player takes 1000 damage. The defending player, of course, hits back for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the DPS takes 1000 damage. Net gain of zero, if both players have the same expertise'

This make no sense because when you get gear equivalent to 500 expertise. You would be hitting for more than 1000 damage. This is why you need to look at attribute scaling before even judging expertise.

P.S. I wrote those blogs. My understanding of the english language, even though it's not my primary language is just fine.
His examples and thus this whole thread is really a way to look at the numbers and situation in a vacuum removing all other variables. While it succeeds in this ... we all know that this does not really transfer to real world (in game) scenarios.
"You can only punch a rancor's nose so many times before you realize there's got to be a better way" -- Han Solo

Sevaar's Avatar


Sevaar
03.15.2012 , 12:57 PM | #69
Try being a healer, stacking ALL expertise in a WZ, and then come back and tell us how well you did 1v1 or while someone with a pulse beat on you.

Metalmac's Avatar


Metalmac
03.15.2012 , 12:57 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Dzhokhar View Post
That blog post is extremely misleading. The differences in scaling that post claims to reveal are entirely accounted for by trauma.

There is no real difference in scaling with regular stats. What that chart does is apply trauma to the "bonus healing" instead of to the total healing. This method works because all healing abilities heal for x*(bonus healing). Unfortunately, you could also account for trauma by having the "bonus healing" equal the "bonus damage" and reduce x. Formulating things in this way, you can see that the scaling of healing with ordinary PvE stats is the same as the scaling of damage. Trauma exists to correct for the fact that x has to be larger for healing abilities in PvE than it has to be in PvP.
Well you are missing one thing.

PVE GEAR for healers or Damage scales the same.

PVP GEAR for healers scales worse as you get gear.

PVP GEAR for damage is much better improvements then my healer gear.

SO THIS IS A DEAD THREAD!!! BIO WARE BAKED INTO THE GEAR THE SOLUTION!!!!!