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Expertise scales better for healers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Expertise scales better for healers

Dzhokhar's Avatar


Dzhokhar
03.15.2012 , 12:09 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Digtahk View Post
Your maths is unfortunately not correct because a dps sufferes less from the limiting factor that is the opponents health pool......that is to say unless you get the killing blow you get full value for your swings most of the time....healers do not get full value for their heals in your simplistic example it doesn't matter that he does and extra 10% heal because his health bar still only returns to the same number.....
I can choose to cast my heals so that they don't overheal my target just as well as a DPSer can only attack targets that won't die from the attack.

Similarly, if I'm capable of healing more damage than my team is taking, I can use my excess time/resources to help out dealing damage.

Overhealing and the reactive nature of healing have no impact on the fact that healing scales better with expertise than damage.

Demarcc's Avatar


Demarcc
03.15.2012 , 12:10 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Bullsith View Post
Then why is an army of people complaining? I mean either we are all noobs and you are just so gosh darn pro on your healer, or there's an actual problem, and TRAUMA was added to avoid this problem, just added badly, which is no surprise considering the crap mechanics Mythic managed to fart out in this game.

But yeah, I don't expect a FOTM healer living under the illusion he's a pro, to agree with the fact that healing in PVP is getting out of hand. Or it already did. But at least have the balls to come clean that you enjoy having it easy.
FOTM huh?

I've played a healer from day 1. Yes I was trying to earn medals for outputting 30% more in numbers than the DPS. Been there done that. Maby you should think before you open your mouth.

Lets not forget that this whole argument is based on the preconception that healers do the same raw output as DPS. Which is NOT the case. As DPS gets better gear thier DPS goes up WAY more than healers healing goes up. If your too clueless to look at the stat panel on your character sheet and realize this there is no helping you.

Dzhokhar's Avatar


Dzhokhar
03.15.2012 , 12:11 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
healing scales poorly compared to DPS:
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/


/thread
Except that PvP gear primarily relies on Expertise for scaling, not the PvE stats in your chart.

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 12:13 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
I don't think you have the intellectual capacity to understand what I wrote, so I'll let your flame go.
Direct quote from your blog (which you didn't write you plagiarized):
'So if you have 300 expertise and your opponent had 300 expertise, you would not gain any damage or protection, but you would be healing yourself for 6.96% more. I would guess that this is Bioware trying to compensate for the healing scaling (or the heal scaling is compensating for this).'

This suggests healing scales better with expertise than damage, since we are not arguing about how it scales with the other primary and secondary stats please in your infinite wisdom explain where I have gone wrong??
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
03.15.2012 , 12:15 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Dzhokhar View Post
Except that PvP gear primarily relies on Expertise for scaling, not the PvE stats.
First lets assume Bioware didn't balance the game for endgame gear... which is a big IF, because what company would not try to do this. My end game gear has about 1600 will power, about 400 power and about 1240 force power.

This gives 643.84 bonus damage and only 463.36 bonus healing. If you read http://www.jedilace.com/2012/03/06/h...re-calculated/ and apply it to some abilities you would know that the majority of the abilities contribution comes from attribute scaling.


Quote: Originally Posted by Digtahk View Post
Direct quote from your blog (which you didn't write you plagiarized):
'So if you have 300 expertise and your opponent had 300 expertise, you would not gain any damage or protection, but you would be healing yourself for 6.96% more. I would guess that this is Bioware trying to compensate for the healing scaling (or the heal scaling is compensating for this).'

This suggests healing scales better with expertise than damage, since we are not arguing about how it scales with the other primary and secondary stats please in your infinite wisdom explain where I have gone wrong??
Like I said you don't have the intellectual capacity to even understand, seeing as you did not even read the blog that I actually linked .... you know the one where I said healing scales less then damage.

Here it is again:
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/

tip: the blue lines are healing
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

Bullsith's Avatar


Bullsith
03.15.2012 , 12:19 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Demarcc View Post
FOTM huh?

I've played a healer from day 1. Yes I was trying to earn medals for outputting 30% more in numbers than the DPS. Been there done that. Maby you should think before you open your mouth.

Lets not forget that this whole argument is based on the preconception that healers do the same raw output as DPS. Which is NOT the case. As DPS gets better gear thier DPS goes up WAY more than healers healing goes up. If your too clueless to look at the stat panel on your character sheet and realize this there is no helping you.
Like I said, you enjoy your easy-mode. That's why you come bark in every thread that's aimed at healing. Healin in this game is OP, because of expertise, and how brain-dead do you have to be to say it scales better for DPS than it does for healer, do the gosh darn math for **** sake. But take into account the fact that healers have enough defensive cooldowns to offer them more than a fair chance agains two dps. Take into account the fact that the resolve bar favours healers above anyone else in this game. And take into account that interrupts are a bad joke put in this game just so we can say it has interrupts. Aside that they are next to useless only good if the healer is about to die. That's mostly the only time it makes a difference. So take your own advice and do some damn research.
Choices need to matter! If I die I need to live with it. Hardcore!

Llenyd's Avatar


Llenyd
03.15.2012 , 12:19 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx View Post
3) Consider two players with 0 expertise: a DPS hits for 1000 damage, the defending player takes 1000 damage (ignore other Damage Reduction for now, please). The defending player is a healer, and must heal back 1000 damage to keep himself alive.

4) Now, again, the same two players with 500 Expertise: a DPS hits for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the defending player takes 1000 damage. The defending player is a healer, and must heal back 1000 damage to keep himself alive. BUT, HIS HEALS ARE BOOSTED BY 10%, EVEN THOUGH HE IS TAKING THE SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE AS #3.
3) Consider THREE players with 0 expertise: a DPS hits for 1000 damage, the defending player takes 1000 damage (ignore other Damage Reduction for now, please). The defending player has a healer teammate, who must heal back 1000 damage to keep the teammate alive.

4) Now, again, the three players, two with 500 Expertise, one with zero: a DPS hits for 1100 damage, and the defending player takes 1100 damage. The defending player has a healer teammate, who must heal back 1100 damage to keep the teammate alive. Because the player is taking MORE DAMAGE because expertise improves damage.

The "unbalance" you see is NOT HEALING. It's that the defending player has a chance to negate your improved damage through IMPROVED DEFENSE.

Tenthletter's Avatar


Tenthletter
03.15.2012 , 12:19 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx View Post
I know Expertise has diminishing returns. It has THE SAME dim returns on Damage and on healing. That's irrelevant to my examples. (Chart is here, if you care: http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/e...-of-champions/ )

Re-active and pro-active also does not matter for my example. The same amount of re-actions and pro-actions happen regardless of expertise.
Except Healing does not scale at the same rate as damage via other stats.

From the same blog you linked above.http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/ (important parts bolded and underlined for clarity)


Quote:
What is interesting about the formulas is that we notice a discrepancy in healing as we put more points into the attribute. The primary and secondary attribute gains for healers are significantly lower than that of damage. Does this means that in pvp, healers are getting the short end of a womp rats tail?

Remember that the definition of expertise is an increase in damage and healing, as well as a damage reduction. So if you have 300 expertise and your opponent had 300 expertise, you would not gain any damage or protection, but you would be healing yourself for 6.96% more. I would guess that this is Bioware trying to compensate for the healing scaling (or the heal scaling is compensating for this).

This should put to rest any arguments that expertise actually helps healers more than it helps damage dealers or tanks.
/thread

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 12:21 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Dzhokhar View Post
I can choose to cast my heals so that they don't overheal my target just as well as a DPSer can only attack targets that won't die from the attack.

Similarly, if I'm capable of healing more damage than my team is taking, I can use my excess time/resources to help out dealing damage.

Overhealing and the reactive nature of healing have no impact on the fact that healing scales better with expertise than damage.
By choosing when to heal so as not to overheal heal you heal less since you are still limited to 1 heal per GC roughly.....go back to your example you get hit for 990 your heal does 1100 what do you do?

The other problem with your example is the gain to the healer only occurs if the opposition increase their expertise its nothing to do with the healer changing his.....thus if healer increase expertise but the opposition stay as they were he heals for 1100 and gets hit for 900 a DPS would hit for 1100 and get hit for 900.
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 12:30 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
First lets assume Bioware didn't balance the game for endgame gear... which is a big IF, because what company would not try to do this. My end game gear has about 1600 will power, about 400 power and about 1240 force power.

This gives 643.84 bonus damage and only 463.36 bonus healing. If you read http://www.jedilace.com/2012/03/06/h...re-calculated/ and apply it to some abilities you would know that the majority of the abilities contribution comes from attribute scaling.




Like I said you don't have the intellectual capacity to even understand, seeing as you did not even read the blog that I actually linked .... you know the one where I said healing scales less then dps.

Here it is again:
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/

tip: the blue lines are healing
Sorry are you in some sort of care program that quote is right out of the blog you are now re-linking. I understand english might not be your primary tool for communication but at least try and read a thread before making a complete fool out of yourself.....I will help you with a point by point break down....

1) Thread title - Expertise scales better for healers
2) You link blog post which shows Primary and secondary stats do not scale as well for healers
3) Blog clearly states expertise is not a primary or secondary stat so is not included
4) blog then goes on to say Expertise scales better to make up for lack of scaling of Primary and secondary stats
5) Hence you are agreeing with the OP - even though you don't have the basic understanding of your own blog to realise this.

For the record no one was arguing whether or not healers scaled better with increase in Primary or Secondary stats.

I will excuse your ignorance this time
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.