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Expertise scales better for healers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Expertise scales better for healers

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 11:58 AM | #31
Your maths is unfortunately not correct because a dps sufferes less from the limiting factor that is the opponents health pool......that is to say unless you get the killing blow you get full value for your swings most of the time....healers do not get full value for their heals in your simplistic example it doesn't matter that he does and extra 10% heal because his health bar still only returns to the same number.....

I do agree that people mentioning trauma probs need to spend less time on the game and more time in class, its not like healing is designed to exactly match dps in absolute terms.
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
03.15.2012 , 11:59 AM | #32
healing scales poorly compared to DPS:
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/


/thread
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
03.15.2012 , 11:59 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx View Post
I know Expertise has diminishing returns. It has THE SAME dim returns on Damage and on healing. That's irrelevant to my examples. (Chart is here, if you care: http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/e...-of-champions/ )

Re-active and pro-active also does not matter for my example. The same amount of re-actions and pro-actions happen regardless of expertise.
Yes, I know. But what I mean is this: it will never go past the 30% Trauma threshold (not even close). That means that if you produce the same amount of raw HPS as your opponent does DPS, the opponent will always do more damage than you heal.

Your argument is that healing will scale better with Expertise, which is true, but I think you're missing a vital point, which is that no matter how much you try - you cannot out-heal the DPS in the long run by pure numbers, you have to actually out-play your opponent.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Arrys's Avatar


Arrys
03.15.2012 , 12:00 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx View Post
Yes, but the effect is constant (30% regardless of expertise).

Since the effect is constant, it has the same ramifications on both scenarios. So it can be ignored. Like this:

H - H * 30% < (H+10%) - (H+10%) * 30%
You seem to be ignoring health pools aren't constant and tend to increase differentially between the classes as well.

in the end any fight between two individuals comes down to more than damage vs healing. By looking at 1 kind of mitigation, ignoring health pool increases, proc chances off special events etc... you create a flawed 1 dimensional analysis. It further varies across classes.

The only people who have the numbers to know if healing is operating more effectively than damage considering all those factors are the dev's dependent on their analytical data gathering anyways.

you seem to ignore the damage advantage of an assist train for example which is created by the reactive nature of healing (minus sorc bubble which against a train is largely irrelevant). That is focused DPS is more effective than focused healing as healing is limited in effectiveness by total health pool and wasted damage only occurs on a kill.

Which is why more healer teams fight to at best standstills but against an assisting team get blown apart.

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
03.15.2012 , 12:00 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
healing scales poorly compared to DPS:
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/


/thread
Oh, snap! Just as he used a jedilace.com chart! :O
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Digtahk's Avatar


Digtahk
03.15.2012 , 12:02 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
healing scales poorly compared to DPS:
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/p...ibute-scaling/


/thread
Noob read your own blog and you will see you actually agree with the OP...if you ignore the overhealing issue I mentioned.
Cry, 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war.

Dzhokhar's Avatar


Dzhokhar
03.15.2012 , 12:03 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Ricky View Post
Also a fake argument- 'if u take away exprtise heal bonus, expertise dosent help healers". OBVIOSLY it helps hlrs since they still want the dmg redction.. Can't heal if your not alive.
It wouldn't help healers heal though. If they took the healing bonus off of expertise, healers would always be better off with PvE gear, which has extra Aim/Cunning/Willpower and actually makes your heals better. Even the damage reduction would be counteracted by having more endurance.

Healers would be required to PvE to get gear for PvP and the only change would be that they wouldn't be as effective at healing themselves (because their survivability would come from having extra HP, instead of the damage reduction from Expertise).

Bullsith's Avatar


Bullsith
03.15.2012 , 12:05 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Demarcc View Post
People are pointing at trauma b/c the mathheads here like to spew numbers and ignore it. Yes its a constant, but if effects the output of healers, you cant just ignore it, it has a direct impact on the math when you talk about Exp scaling.
Then why is an army of people complaining? I mean either we are all noobs and you are just so gosh darn pro on your healer, or there's an actual problem, and TRAUMA was added to avoid this problem, just added badly, which is no surprise considering the crap mechanics Mythic managed to fart out in this game.

But yeah, I don't expect a FOTM healer living under the illusion he's a pro, to agree with the fact that healing in PVP is getting out of hand. Or it already did. But at least have the balls to come clean that you enjoy having it easy.
Choices need to matter! If I die I need to live with it. Hardcore!

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
03.15.2012 , 12:05 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Digtahk View Post
Noob read your own blog and you will see you actually agree with the OP...if you ignore the overhealing issue I mentioned.
I don't think you have the intellectual capacity to understand what I wrote, so I'll let your flame go.
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
03.15.2012 , 12:06 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
I don't think you have the intellectual capacity to understand what I wrote, so I'll let your flame go.
I was a bit stumped as well. Considering that the last line is "This should put to rest any arguments that expertise actually helps healers more than it helps damage dealers or tanks."
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.