Expertise scales better for healers

DPS and Damage reduction from equal amounts of expertise will cancel each other out. Two examples:

1) Consider two players with 0 expertise: a DPS hits for 1000 damage, the defending player takes 1000 damage (ignore other Damage Reduction for now, please). The defending player hits back for 1000, and the DPS takes 1000 damage.

2) Now two players with 500 Expertise: a DPS hits for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the defending player takes 1000 damage. The defending player, of course, hits back for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the DPS takes 1000 damage. Net gain of zero, if both players have the same expertise.

Pretty simple, right? Once you've mastered the above two examples, consider this comparison:

3) Consider two players with 0 expertise: a DPS hits for 1000 damage, the defending player takes 1000 damage (ignore other Damage Reduction for now, please). The defending player is a healer, and must heal back 1000 damage to keep himself alive. (EDIT #2 - He heals himself for 1390 points, minus 30% for trauma, net heal 1000 pts)

4) Now, again, the same two players with 500 Expertise: a DPS hits for [what would be] 1100 damage, but the defending player takes 1000 damage. The defending player is a healer, and must heal back 1000 damage to keep himself alive. BUT, HIS HEALS ARE BOOSTED BY 10%, EVEN THOUGH HE IS TAKING THE SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE AS #3.
(EDIT #2 - He heals himself for 1390 points, minus 30% for trauma, net heal 1000 pts. But, Healing for 1390 points is now 10% easier, because of Expertise)


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In my opinion, the bolded part above is a mistake in game design.

(EDIT: I know what Trauma is, and it has nothing to do with the above. 30% less healing in PvP is so that PVE healing (being 30% more) can heal BOSS damage on a tank, without unbalancing PVP.

If you are having trouble following these examples, read them more closely. I used round numbers to make them easier, but some people still don't get it.)

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EDIT #2: By popular demand, TRAUMA effects are now added.

Clearly you've never heard of Trauma.

Trauma.

/end thread (oh and L2P)

With the possibility to reduce healing by 50%, I think you are missing a few things. If expertise was the only factor in any fight I would agree, but there are many factors including the mandatory -30% healing debuff, (plus an additional 20% from marauders) and each class having multiple interrupts they have more than enough chances to completely stop that heal with the increased 10% healing.

Basically you can do near if not more than double the damage you would normally do to the healer before that one heal, so in effect they need to have a bit more healing than damage they take.

If you can't kill a healer you are doing something wrong.

As I posted in another thread ..... plain and simple there isn't anyone that can't kill me 1 vs 1 (I'm a healer). The exceptions are tanks and other healers. Now that doesn't mean I can kill them either as my DPS sucks and I have to continue to heal my self most times.

I'm guessing your missing something with your class and NEVER forget your interrupts.

Trauma doesn't change the fact that healing scales better with expertise than damage. Trauma exists to balance healing between PvP and PvE. It does not affect the scaling of healing relative to damage within PvP as affected by Expertise. (In other words: Even if healing is balanced now, as people acquire more Expertise, healing will get better faster than damage does because of the way Expertise works and Trauma doesn't change that.)

Personally, I don't think Expertise can be fixed as a single PvP megastat. If BioWare were to remove the healing buff from Expertise, healers wouldn't get any benefit from Expertise. Similarly, if the damage reduction were removed, tanks wouldn't get any benefit.

In my opinion, the correct solution is to eliminate expertise and give PvP gear PvP-only values for the normal PvE stats. For example, a piece of gear might have "+90(25) Endurance", where the item gives 90 endurance in both PvE and PvP, and an additional 25 Endurance in PvP only (essentially in Warzones and designated PvP areas like Ilum and Outlaw's Den). This way, items can have stats that are applicable to a specific class/role and any side effects of having a PvP megastat are avoided.

If you hold expertise equal between 2 players, the player receiving the damage actually maintains a benefit.

This can quickly be demonstrated with a simple expression:

1000 damage increased by 10% expertise deals 1100 damage. Player receives 10% reduction of 1100 damage, player receives 990 damage.

let x be the percentage benefit to healing/damage increase/damage reduction (i.e. x=0.1 means 10% healing/damage increase and 10% reduced damage).

{[Damage]*(1+x)}*(1-x)=[Final Damage]
[Damage]*(1-x^2)=[Final Damage]

As expertise levels increase (while remaining equal between 2 players), the player receiving damage will receive (1-x^2) of the initial damage. In other words, as expertise increases, the victim will receive a larger benefit.

And all the time they are healing they are not dealing damage, whereas the other player is, it still balances out.

The problem with the assumption that Healers benefit more from Expertise than others is Trauma (as others have brought up) and that Expertise suffers from Diminishing Returns. After 550 or so, you start to see a real drop in point-to-percentage increase.

What this mean is that yes, you will receive some whooping 10-12%increase in healing (maybe a few more percent if you go 700 Expertise, which means you're actually hindering yourself, due to other stats being ignored), but Trauma is already hindering you to begin with. Meaning that you're just trying to catch up to the DPS since every new Tier of items will increase DPS by 30% more than it will increase the Healing - so the gap will only become bigger, point-wise.

An example: Player 1 does 100 DPS. 10% Expertise means that player will do 110 DPS.
Player 2 does 100 HPS. 10% Expertise and -30% from Trauma means that player will do 80 HPS.

Player 1 does 1000 DPS. 10% Expertise means that player will do 1100 DPS
Player 2 does 1000 HPS. 10% Expertise and -30% from Trauma means that player will do 800 HPS.

This means that you will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage, healing-wise. Which is working as intended.

TL;DR: You're right (it scales "better"), but the point your making is still wrong. Healers scale worse than DPS in PvP because of Trauma.

Edit: Oh, btw. I think Expertise is stupid. I'm just saying that Healers will heal for less than people doing damage.

With 0 expertise, the marauder stuff and all the other stuff you mentioned still work. At 500 expertise, they work the same. All of those things you mentioned work the same no matter how low/high expertise is.

Re-read my examples, as you clearly missed what i was talking about.