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Time to end Biochem reusables

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Time to end Biochem reusables
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

FrostyDroid's Avatar


FrostyDroid
03.12.2012 , 03:13 PM | #271
Quote: Originally Posted by Cartumandua View Post
Translation: We can't figure out how to make the other crew skills useful, so we've decided to make Biochem useless too.
NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.
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OldSwab's Avatar


OldSwab
03.12.2012 , 04:17 PM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by FrostyDroid View Post
NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.
That can actually be accomplished with credits--and actually you get better stats buying the crafteds than using the reusables.

The fact that it takes a ridiculous amount of credits to do it was the problem, caused by:

a) how long it takes to produce crafted medpacks (etc)
b) how long it takes to gather the mats for crafted medpacks (etc)
c) how few you get in return for medpack crafting missions
d) the cost in credits per crafted medpacks

Their solution is taking away an innovative and convenient player benefit, and substituting some of the "gold standard mmo of tedium and grind".

Bad day for frog dogs everywhere. They seem to be giving up on the small number features they innovated a little bit with, and moving more towards a light-saber skinned WoW.
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DizzD's Avatar


DizzD
03.12.2012 , 06:24 PM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by FrostyDroid View Post
NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.

You conveniently overlook the fact that Synthweaving, Armormech and Cybertech can craft BOP Best in Slot augmented Rakata pieces.



IMO either give all crewskills exclusive end game perks, or remove them from all.
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Neamhan's Avatar


Neamhan
03.12.2012 , 06:37 PM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by FrostyDroid View Post
NO, the translation is they DON'T WANT any tradeskill to give an endgame advantage over someone without it.

It's in the original design documents: Crafting is intended to be an OPTIONAL activity. Ergo no craft should give an advantage that cannot be obtained/bought by a non-crafter.

Biochem was broken. The developers know that, and those who know what the intention was know that.
Except the part that they're 'phasing out' is the convenience part, not the supposedly overpowered part. All they're doing is making Biochem more tedious, something they claim to want to be reducing in the game instead of adding. There is no 'end game advantage' to reusables because they aren't any more powerful than the consumables.

I can tell you the only reason I have Biochem is because of the reusables, because i find it tedious and annoying to have to constantly make new stacks of stims and medpacks. I don't care about selling items. I'm not in it to make credits. I don't care if the top end consumables are more powerful. I'm not in it to try to be more powerful than anyone. I'm just in it so I don't have to keep making these things constantly. I'm sure if Artificers had to keep making crystals to use every 2 hours, they wouldn't be happy about that either.

If a lot of people are taking Biochem just for the reusables, one would think Bioware would get that people don't like the tedium involved in constantly resupplying stacks of stems/medpacks. Reusables hurt absolutely no one. They are not more powerful than consumables. If you're getting pwned in pvp because someone is using reusables, you'll get pwned even harder when they're 'phased out' because the consumables are even more powerful.

Right now reusables follow the original design documents exactly: they are nothing more than convenience, not additional power. That's pretty much the definition of optional. To phase out reusables is exactly the worst thing that could be done.

wardrich's Avatar


wardrich
03.12.2012 , 07:12 PM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by DizzD View Post
You conveniently overlook the fact that Synthweaving, Armormech and Cybertech can craft BOP Best in Slot augmented Rakata pieces.
All requiring mats from end game FP's.

Danakar's Avatar


Danakar
03.12.2012 , 07:14 PM | #276
Quote: Originally Posted by wardrich View Post
All requiring mats from end game FP's.
Just like the Biochem reusable Medpack/Stim/Adrenal.
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ZakStormborn's Avatar


ZakStormborn
03.12.2012 , 07:23 PM | #277
Whats the BIS that Cyber Tech can Craft?

OGGleep's Avatar


OGGleep
03.12.2012 , 07:38 PM | #278
Only rakkata pieces I have at 400 cyber is grenades.

Biotech as implemented before was a horrid idea in a game built around pvp. Those complaining are obviously pre-nerf chemists, or those that went bio because they read how awesome it was.

If they prevented crafted Bio-chem items from working while flagged for pvp, it would bring it in line with other trade skills. As mentioned, the GTN revenue stream is built in already in the form of implants. On pvp server idk if your always flagged but I assume there's safe zones. The flag s coded into the game, shouldnt be that hard to implement if there's a need to do so on pvp servers.

ademnus's Avatar


ademnus
03.12.2012 , 07:40 PM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by Chunkie View Post
Like the title says, i think it's time to end this. It clearly is overpowering because having a free heal, free adrenals and free stims is just too powerful.

Even Biochemists should want this change, because with so many biochemists, the market for stims and medpacs is just not there.

The perks for a biochemist should be stronger stim/adrenals/medpacs for their own use only. Change the reusables to the Exotech (requiring 400 biochem to use), and drop their mats to only requiring one Radioactive Paste (4 is absurd).

Adrenals are too expensive currently. A good start would be to cut their mats by half.

For ops schematics, make the Exotech have a 4 hour duration that anybody can use (and requiring 4 Radioactive Paste).

The other crafting skills aren't broken. Some require tweeks, but they ARE viable. It's just when people compare them to Biochem, they see it as useless. When people look up stims and see that 2 stims is the same price as a reusable, it's a no-brainer that stims are a ripoff or/and that biochem reusables is too fantastic to not have.
I couldnt disagree more. What is with this weird nerf everyone who isnt me attitude?
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GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
03.12.2012 , 09:42 PM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by DizzD View Post
You conveniently overlook the fact that Synthweaving, Armormech and Cybertech can craft BOP Best in Slot augmented Rakata pieces.



IMO either give all crewskills exclusive end game perks, or remove them from all.
From what I understood from the guild conference, they are. IIRC, when asked what other perk biochem would be getting since synthweaving/etc. have the BoP stuff and biochem is lowing the reuseables, the answer was that the game is going to be moving to a more player driven economy, and BoP stuff would be getting removed in favor of BoE.

So, nothing to overlook. Those exclusive end game perks ARE being removed from all.

(Besides, BiS is arguably, from what I understand, orange stuff slotted with 58 mods)