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Devs, you're missing your window to save Operative/Scoundrel healing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Healing
Devs, you're missing your window to save Operative/Scoundrel healing
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
03.09.2012 , 07:30 PM | #361
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatzimaus View Post
As the man once said, "there's the rub". You need to heal AoE damage, but that doesn't necessarily mean using an AoE effect. What you actually need is the ability to keep multiple people alive without completely overburdening yourself (either in resources or in time invested), but the mechanisms for doing so could be radically different between the classes. I'd use the phrase "separate but equal" to describe it, but we all know where that one ends up. The point is that with the right combination of tools and/or utility increases, Operatives could be just as effective at keeping a raid alive as a Sorcerer, even if the way he does so doesn't involve dropping a single big AoE heal effect. If the powers were constructed right, a combination of theoretically single-target skills (HoTs, buffs, etc.) could achieve the same goal.
(I'm going to use Empire names for everything. No offense to any Scoundrels in here.)
I don't think we disagree, so long as we can agree that everyone needs the tools to fill all the roles. While Commandos are considered the best tank healers in the game at the moment, I'd hate to see us black-listed from filling the Raid Healer role.

Our AoE only heals 3 people (4 or more in Patch 1.2). It has a short cooldown though, and is cheap enough to be used frequently with little penalty. If they would just put smart healing on it, I would have no complaint about the weakness (at current levels of content. I reserve the right to change my mind if it fails to be able to keep people alive, when used with the rest of the toolset, at higher levels of new content).

I used to raid as a paladin healer, and for years our version of AoE was "cast lots of tiny heals on everyone as quickly as possible." It was like serving as a manual AoE HoT that rolled through the raid. They were small, but they were fast and they were efficient, so it got the job done.

So long as I have the tools to do any job, I'm happy. I just want those tools, if more limited than someone else's, to not have inexplicable weaknesses tacked on for no reason. Smaller heal value? Fine. Smaller cap? I'll accept it. No smart healing? ***.
Brushing off the dust on my Assault Cannon. Time to get back in the fight.

GeorgZoeller's Avatar


GeorgZoeller
03.09.2012 , 07:54 PM | #362 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
We are generally not talking about upcoming balance information, for any class, until we have finalized the changes enough to be certain, which usually means when changes are about to hit PTS. This avoids confusion and wrong expectations, but understandably causes people to be impatient.

I have acknowledged, when asked at the Guild Summit, that we determined healing on Operative can use some improvements and have made changes in 1.2 (along with changes to almost every other aspect of the game).

For details, you will have to wait until the patch hits PTS (which should be soon) for the reasons stated. Even then, I would advise you to actually test the changes on the server rather than relying on theory crafting based on patch notes, as some of the underlying rules for the game (e.g. diminishing returns for certain stats) have changed at the same time.

Disclaimer: When I state 'we changed X', it does not preclude changes to Y and Z. I did not say 'we did not change Y and Z' but neither did I say 'we changed Y and Z'. I merely made a singular statement about X, which is not to be constructed as a statement about Y or Z. Even though I just said 'we changed X', the statistical probability for the immediate appearance of threads decrying the lack of change to Y and Z has significantly increased by this statement about X. This puzzling effect is why the first rule of partial class balance discussion is that you do not discuss partial class balance.

Daross's Avatar


Daross
03.10.2012 , 07:44 AM | #363
Simple fix : buff HoTs x2 or 3... no jokes here.
Atm, only double stacked SRMP can crit for 1k.
With people having 17-20k HP, HoTs should tick for above 1k in normal situation.. or 2k double stacked on tanks.
SWTOR is very bursty enviroment in PvE.. weak HoTs does not belong here, neither do class which is based around it.

Urishir's Avatar


Urishir
03.10.2012 , 12:15 PM | #364
Quote: Originally Posted by Daross View Post
Simple fix : buff HoTs x2 or 3... no jokes here.
Atm, only double stacked SRMP can crit for 1k.
With people having 17-20k HP, HoTs should tick for above 1k in normal situation.. or 2k double stacked on tanks.
SWTOR is very bursty enviroment in PvE.. weak HoTs does not belong here, neither do class which is based around it.
sadly those would break us in pvp, but agree hots are useless in nightmare modes when people actually take damage

Soshla's Avatar


Soshla
03.10.2012 , 02:45 PM | #365
Rather than just beefing up the HoTs, I think it would help in all situations if the Scoundrel/Op HoT ticked every second. Fast ticking HoTs are much more useful in bursty environments. It essentially gives their HoT a Trauma Probe/Kolto Shell functionality on tanks. When the tank is hit, his damage will be smoothed out a bit by preemptive heals before the next swing.

navido's Avatar


navido
03.10.2012 , 04:14 PM | #366
Quote: Originally Posted by Soshla View Post
Rather than just beefing up the HoTs, I think it would help in all situations if the Scoundrel/Op HoT ticked every second. Fast ticking HoTs are much more useful in bursty environments. It essentially gives their HoT a Trauma Probe/Kolto Shell functionality on tanks. When the tank is hit, his damage will be smoothed out a bit by preemptive heals before the next swing.
Let Alacrity works with HoT's. Also when there are 2 HoT's stacked on a target the chance for UH/TA should double as well to make up for the cost of casting them.
Brander 50 Scoundrel - Kellers Void
Alexasta 37 Sage - Kellers Void
Wynterr Sentinel (Terrorizing lowbies near you) - Kellers Void

Shockrocks's Avatar


Shockrocks
03.10.2012 , 05:32 PM | #367
Not sure if this has been mentioned before or not. I have not read all of the posts.

What if UH/TA was gained and used in the same way it is now but not on a timer. It could only be gained in combat and once combat is over unused UH/TA is lost. Yes this would not allow us to pre-stack before a fight but would make it to where we wouldn't have to worry about a timer on our secondary resource.

Great thread.
DON'T PANIC.

Absalon's Avatar


Absalon
03.10.2012 , 07:24 PM | #368
One of the problems with Kolto Infusion is that if TA runs out before the cast is finished, the cast fails. I see no reason why TA even has a timer. We can't stack more than 2. Why not just leave it up until used? Or at least make the timer a lot longer.

Shroudveil's Avatar


Shroudveil
03.11.2012 , 05:42 AM | #369
Quote: Originally Posted by Urishir View Post
sadly those would break us in pvp, but agree hots are useless in nightmare modes when people actually take damage
not really.

sorc bubble can shield for ~4k damage upfront, can be cast on the same target 1/17sec can be cast on multiple targets without cd

if single stacked hot would heal the same as double stacked then: it would heal for ~5.5k but it would not be upfront, could be cast on the same target 1/18sec could be cast on multiple targets without cd.

they would be similar, one would do a bit less shielding but it would all be upfront, the other would do a bit more but it would be segmented.

as a bonus for shield it isn''t affected by heal debuffs too, so in pvp it would still be better.
Quote:
Georg Zoeller: A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed.

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
03.11.2012 , 08:27 AM | #370
Quote: Originally Posted by Shroudveil View Post
not really.

sorc bubble can shield for ~4k damage upfront, can be cast on the same target 1/17sec can be cast on multiple targets without cd

if single stacked hot would heal the same as double stacked then: it would heal for ~5.5k but it would not be upfront, could be cast on the same target 1/18sec could be cast on multiple targets without cd.

they would be similar, one would do a bit less shielding but it would all be upfront, the other would do a bit more but it would be segmented.

as a bonus for shield it isn''t affected by heal debuffs too, so in pvp it would still be better.
HoTs can overheal. Shields cannot. As such, HoTs should have a higher heal value per cast time (they are both instant so that's easy to compare) and a higher heal value per cost.
Brushing off the dust on my Assault Cannon. Time to get back in the fight.