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Sorc/Sage Friendly Pull

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorc/Sage Friendly Pull

Derian's Avatar


Derian
03.08.2012 , 11:16 PM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by Humankeg View Post
Yes, that is a reasonable request. Playing against 4 top notch sorcs, all of them in the same area up in the racking in Huttball. "better find a place where they can't knock me down".

Lol, dude are you even reading what you are typing?
When you act like this, how do you expect people to respect your suggestions? If you aren't veteran enough of a player to realize that knockback sends you in a direction relative to where you are to your opponent, you really shouldn't be making any kind of recommendations.

Move around the Sorc so when they do throw a knock back, it sends you back to where more flooring is, isntead of off the platform. All competent PVPers know this
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Humankeg's Avatar


Humankeg
03.08.2012 , 11:23 PM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by Derian View Post
Why isn't it a smart strategy? They are employing things that you admittedly can not overcome. When you pay defense in most sports, you never let the offense behind you.
Between knock backs and CC's, you will NOT be able to kill 4 sorcs up in the racking unless you overwhelm them with numbesr. That allows their ball carrier to score.

if you send only a few, then there will be a sorc freely able to "pull" the ball carrier when needed.

if you aren't familiar with this type of play it is because you don't play against quality sorcs. Sorcs are squishy... on the ground. Up top, against MULTIPLE sorcs, you just cannot avoid bing knocked down to the ground level, leaving the sorcs to easily pull their ball carrier.

Quote:
You dont have to kill them, you have to make them respect your presence, however. I win huttball all the time, it sounds like you don't. Perhaps you should take my advice into consideration.
yes because "respecting my presence" will surely make them decide twice about pulling their ball carrier. Lol what are you even talking about? And i actually win 70%+ of my war zones. I don't really have issues with sorcs as of now, but I really don't feel like seeing all the top rated huttball teams with 3-4 sorcs on them.

Quote:
Position yourself so you don't get knocked down, use force leap, pulls etc
yes, I'd like to see you try to "not get knocked down" against a group of 4 sorcs up in the racking in Huttball. Chances are better you would win the lottery. And yes, EVERY class has a grapple. Better yet, grapple can pull multple targets at once!!! Dude... please just stop posting until you can make some sense.

Quote:
I don't care about your suggestions, I'm a Sentinel, and I have been the entire time in Launch. I'm a melee class, and I have absolutely no problem with sorc/sages and shadows/sins in HB. It is a failure of your team to let these people get behind your defense.
Lawl, just because you beat bad sorc teams, and don't have the insite to see that it is an imbalanced ability, doesn't mean that you will not be seeing teams stacking sorcs on them once rated games come out.

Alolowing pull to empty the resolve bar equalizes the issue here, and I don't think it is in the least bit unreasonable.

Quote:
Ball Carriers need support.
Yes they do, and sorcs provide by a huge, wide margin, the most support to a ball carrier. You just aren't getting this. A couple small tweaks (force speed is affected by carrying the ball and "pull" empties the resolve bar") fixes this.

Quote:
Leave him while you take care of the people in front of him. You can pass/get pulled/leap MUCH faster than a ball carrier can run/walk. If all you do is jump on the ball carrier, guards and heals will keep him alive. How do you think Raiding tanks live?
Yes, because a team of mostly non-force users will so easily catch sorcs in Huttball. No speed boost vs force speed. Tons of CC (including knock backs) so when you do catch up to the sorcs, you get knocked down.

It is just not happening. Find a couple great sorcs, play with them, and see how easily they can help the team score. Now multiply that ten fold, and you will get how effective coordinating teams, stacking sorcs, will be in Huttball.

Humankeg's Avatar


Humankeg
03.08.2012 , 11:26 PM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by Derian View Post
When you act like this, how do you expect people to respect your suggestions? If you aren't veteran enough of a player to realize that knockback sends you in a direction relative to where you are to your opponent, you really shouldn't be making any kind of recommendations.

Move around the Sorc so when they do throw a knock back, it sends you back to where more flooring is, isntead of off the platform. All competent PVPers know this
Do you not see how stuipd this suggestion is? Try rolling marrbles around in a rectangular tray, and constantly position your finger in places in which you will not be between the marble and a side of the tray.

It just doesn't work like that. Unless you have the literal reflexes of a jedi, 4 sorcs ganging up on you WILL knock you down. You will not be able to position or react fast enough to 4 of them to stay up top. You will have to send most of your team to try to kill the sorcs, and it will take them forever, leaving most of their team helping their ball carrier to score.

Changing it so "pull" empties the resolve bar, doesn't force a team to go after the sorcs in such a manner. They are sstill a huge threat, but at least there is the possibilty to do SOMETHING if the ball carrier gets gribbed while on full resolve.

THe object of Huttball is not to prevent sorcs from making it to the top levels; it is to prevent the other team from scoring. You are asking for the game's priority to be "don't let sorcs occupy top racks, everyone after them".

Derian's Avatar


Derian
03.08.2012 , 11:38 PM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by Humankeg View Post
Between knock backs and CC's, you will NOT be able to kill 4 sorcs up in the racking unless you overwhelm them with numbesr. That allows their ball carrier to score.
I can, I have, and will continue to do so. Overload is on a 20second Cooldown, and I coordinate with my Guildmates who is a threat to the team. We act accordingly.
if you send only a few, then there will be a sorc freely able to "pull" the ball carrier when needed.

if you aren't familiar with this type of play it is because you don't play against quality sorcs. Sorcs are squishy... on the ground. Up top, against MULTIPLE sorcs, you just cannot avoid bing knocked down to the ground level, leaving the sorcs to easily pull their ball carrier.

I've been involved in SWTOR since closed beta in August. When my guild migrated to Helm of Graush we brought a lot of heat from other elite guilds who wanted to take us out. I'd wager to say we have one of the better servers in the entire game. Including top empire guilds from Closed Beta. Rather than being defensive of your own shortcomings, build off of them. Kill the sorcs, and quit complaining.


yes because "respecting my presence" will surely make them decide twice about pulling their ball carrier. Lol what are you even talking about? And i actually win 70%+ of my war zones. I don't really have issues with sorcs as of now, but I really don't feel like seeing all the top rated huttball teams with 3-4 sorcs on them.
You don't win 70% of anything because you are complaining about losing Huttball, and you are explaining strategy that known HB failures always fall behind. There is no "Top Huttball" team, you can't choose your WZ. Stop making excuses for your failure.


yes, I'd like to see you try to "not get knocked down" against a group of 4 sorcs up in the racking in Huttball. Chances are better you would win the lottery. And yes, EVERY class has a grapple. Better yet, grapple can pull multple targets at once!!! Dude... please just stop posting until you can make some sense.
You seem to have an obsession for your hatred towards knockback. Learn how to position yourself in contrast to the person with knockback. Sorc knockback is weak anyway it's the Commando knockback that will F you. Now you are getting angry. Whatever, I'm not the one who can't win at HB.



Lawl, just because you beat bad sorc teams, and don't have the insite to see that it is an imbalanced ability, doesn't mean that you will not be seeing teams stacking sorcs on them once rated games come out.

Alolowing pull to empty the resolve bar equalizes the issue here, and I don't think it is in the least bit unreasonable.



Yes they do, and sorcs provide by a huge, wide margin, the most support to a ball carrier. You just aren't getting this. A couple small tweaks (force speed is affected by carrying the ball and "pull" empties the resolve bar") fixes this.



Yes, because a team of mostly non-force users will so easily catch sorcs in Huttball. No speed boost vs force speed. Tons of CC (including knock backs) so when you do catch up to the sorcs, you get knocked down.

It is just not happening. Find a couple great sorcs, play with them, and see how easily they can help the team score. Now multiply that ten fold, and you will get how effective coordinating teams, stacking sorcs, will be in Huttball.
All I read is making excuses for not winning HB, you clearly have bad strategy when you ask if you should send people to take care of Sorcs who are behind you. You can choose to improve, or you can make excuses. Choice is your's. Any competent/elite pvper in SWTOR knows how to take care of situations you talk about. I suggest more experience.
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Humankeg's Avatar


Humankeg
03.08.2012 , 11:51 PM | #195
Quote:
I can, I have, and will continue to do so. Overload is on a 20second Cooldown, and I coordinate with my Guildmates who is a threat to the team. We act accordingly..
No you don't. 4 sorcs up top will knock you down. End of story.

Quote:
I've been involved in SWTOR since closed beta in August. When my guild migrated to Helm of Graush we brought a lot of heat from other elite guilds who wanted to take us out. I'd wager to say we have one of the better servers in the entire game. Including top empire guilds from Closed Beta. Rather than being defensive of your own shortcomings, build off of them. Kill the sorcs, and quit complaining.
Yea, being in beta really makes you a skilled pvp'er. Again, please think before posting.

Quote:
You don't win 70% of anything because you are complaining about losing Huttball, and you are explaining strategy that known HB failures always fall behind. There is no "Top Huttball" team, you can't choose your WZ. Stop making excuses for your failure.
Yes I do. And please, quote me where I am complaining about losing Huttball? And yes, there is a "top huttball" team. Its the team that dominates the most in Huttball.

Quote:
You seem to have an obsession for your hatred towards knockback. Learn how to position yourself in contrast to the person with knockback. Sorc knockback is weak anyway it's the Commando knockback that will F you. Now you are getting angry. Whatever, I'm not the one who can't win at HB.
L2Read. No idea what this obcession is you speak of. Nor do I have a hatred for knockbacks. I don't like it when it happens, but I hardly think its op'd. And getting angy? Please, stop being stupid.

Quote:
All I read is making excuses for not winning HB, you clearly have bad strategy when you ask if you should send people to take care of Sorcs who are behind you. You can choose to improve, or you can make excuses. Choice is your's. Any competent/elite pvper in SWTOR knows how to take care of situations you talk about. I suggest more experience.
Huttball isn't called Sorcball for a reason. The primary goal of Huttball isn't to keep sorcs from staying up top or make it to the goal line.

And no, more expereinced/better players don't exist atm. And no, they don't know how to "take care of situations like this". Getting knocked to the ground, having the ball carrier on full resolve, and two sorcs waiting up top to pull gives ZERO options to keep them from scoring other than just straght and hard dps to the ball carrier.

Having pull empty the resolve bar will at least allow some olptions, and not force teams to take 3-4 sorcs.

Again, please explain to me how having "pull" empty a resolve bar be detrimental to the game? its not a nerf to the Sorc class. It doesn't change how well they play 1vs1, so you can be assured that you awesome class will still play the same after this change goes through.

Paulman's Avatar


Paulman
03.09.2012 , 02:22 AM | #196
Players can just pass the ball. Having the ability to pull the carrier doesn't really advance the ball any more than they would normally be able to. Being able to pull the enemy is much better. The problem is people are dumb and don't pass.

GRINnBARRETT's Avatar


GRINnBARRETT
03.09.2012 , 02:43 AM | #197
I should just get a rubber stamp: Quit trying to take the fun out of Huttball.

All those special abilities is what makes Huttball fun. If it was just whack-a-mole then why even bother with different elevations and traps.

BountyFodder's Avatar


BountyFodder
03.09.2012 , 07:52 AM | #198
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulman View Post
Players can just pass the ball. Having the ability to pull the carrier doesn't really advance the ball any more than they would normally be able to. Being able to pull the enemy is much better. The problem is people are dumb and don't pass.
Ye Exactly that. It is a lack of defensive tactics that makes all the bad players run up the middle ramp and off onto the middle rafter platform without looking at me sitting on the top left or top right. They crowd around the ball carrier and stun him to full resolve. Then I just pull him out of the fray. Whether I pulled him or he managed a pass to me, makes no difference to the fact that I should have been an equal if not higher priority kill target, or at least knock off/controlled target, than the ball carrier at that point.

I have said it before. The complainers are like 6 year old children playing soccer. Its all 20 players piled around the ball, swinging legs at it. Nobody is thinking of positioning and man marking, and opening yourself up for a pass etc...

BelphagorAD's Avatar


BelphagorAD
03.09.2012 , 08:24 AM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by Hapox View Post
Don't let sorc move ahead if you dont want them to Friendly pull.

If you remove all this from Huttball.
People will just Move ahead to get pass.
and You will be back here on forum for a Nerf on Pass ability.
This^

Letting a team get into position is not playing defense. I've seen a team pick up the ball mid, pass to the top, pass to the top side, run down and pass to someone waiting below for a quick score because the other team was more worried about scoring kills around mid than keeping their backfield clear.

Had a 5 v 6 game the other night where both teams had quick pass lanes set up and it was over under 10 mins.. I may have seen 1 pull by the other team but it didn't matter as much as who picked up the ball first and ditched it to their 2nd passer.

Passing & Position > rescue... but it does come in handy for when the ball handlers try and walk over firepits & get chain stunned...
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unixbomber's Avatar


unixbomber
03.09.2012 , 08:30 AM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulman View Post
Players can just pass the ball. Having the ability to pull the carrier doesn't really advance the ball any more than they would normally be able to. Being able to pull the enemy is much better. The problem is people are dumb and don't pass.
/thread