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Lightsaber Design Problems


BladedDingo's Avatar


BladedDingo
03.08.2012 , 02:05 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by ReaperBow View Post
Adding to this lovely discussion: Aren't lightsabers powered by the force? which would explain why whenever you see a jedi/sith defeated his/her lightsaber always sheaths. So really there is no chance of it going off while on you belt.

(someone may have said this, didn't read all the posts)
Quote: Originally Posted by Bejarid View Post
Incorrect. Virtually all lightsabers have a button, switch, or activation stud; however, they are almost always hung from the belt in such a way that the activator is less likely to be bumped to the "on" position. As to the second point about deactivation on death of the wielder, my theory is that most lightsabers require constant pressure on their activator to maintain the blade, or have a mechanism to "lock" the blade - for example, when the weapon is to be thrown.
My personal theory on why lightsabers deactivate upon being dropped, either via being disarmed, killed or knocked unconscious is due to the forging of the weapon.

Each Jedi creates their weapon personally, it's a final test to determine if they can wield the force properly.

When a jedi creates their weapon, they have to meditate and focus on the weapon, often building it by using the force to lift and connect the pieces.

This is illustrated by the creation of lightsabers at the forge on tython in the JK/consular prologue, where they use the force to assemble their first lightsaber.

When this happens, the force "binds" the weapon to the jedi and it becomes more then a weapon or a tool, but a piece of the jedi themselves, and they it.

When in combat, the natural flow of the force being used by the combatant allows their weapon to be more accurate and powerful and the weapon becomes attuned to that jedi.

When the weapon is dropped, or the flow of the force from jedi to weapon ceases, so to does the weapons power supply.

Not necessarily that the weapon is powered by the force, cause it isn't, but the sabre has a built in fail safe with their connection to the jedi and will de-activate when the flow is stopped.

While jedi can use lightsabers belonging to other jedi, the jedi will always attempt to make a new lightsaber as soon as they are able to if their original one was lost - Luke created his own sabre when he became a jedi.

Vader made a new saber when his was taken by obi-wan, Jacen Solo made a new saber when his was taken by luke and Anakin Solo even rebuilt his saber when his was destroyed on yavin during the Vong War.

It even described in the book how while the components were there, a jedi was not truely ready to wield a saber until they had meditated in the force on it.

Anakin Solo's unique choice of a lament crystal and the meditation afterwards even allowed him to sense the Vong in the force by channeling his senses through the crystal int he heart of his weapon.

Freshtech's Avatar


Freshtech
03.08.2012 , 03:24 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by deneric View Post
So ... your problem with the lightsaber isn't that it's some miraculous tube that creates a concentrated beam of light that only goes so far and requires practically NO power. Seriously, a couple double a batteries and you're set for like, a decade. No, instead, your problem with it is the belt.

Good sir, I mean this is in the friendliest, least cruel way I possibly can; That is *********** hilarious.
Quote: Originally Posted by Silthir View Post
I don't really understand the point of this discussion, being that Lightsabers don't even exist. You know Sci-Fi can make up whatever the hell rules they want to... sci-fi can defy gravity (god that made me want to sing Defying Gravity from Wicked...).
Sigh...You do realize this is the Star Wars discussion forum, right? You know, the place where people discuss the most random ideas like "who would win in a fight between Vader and Revan?" Of course lightsabers aren't real. This is a place to throw out "what ifs" and think creatively. If that's not for you and you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, then leave.

What I've been trying to say has nothing to do with the fantastical technology that makes lightsabers work. We all accept that in the Star Wars universe, there exists such technology. But the point is that humans are the same in both real life and in the Star Wars Universe, and that way lightsabers are designed does not work well with human physiology.
S'yrenity - Mandalore the Healer

Empress Teta Refugee on The Harbinger

CFourPO's Avatar


CFourPO
03.08.2012 , 09:28 AM | #23
You can't think too hard about sci fi. I mean, if I have telekinesis, I wouldnt throw rocks at you. I'd just move your internal organs around. If Scottie can 'beam' people up (involving saving their entire cellular structure) people are immortal assuming enough hard drive space (see some episode of DS9).

Rakaxs's Avatar


Rakaxs
03.08.2012 , 09:46 AM | #24
The best lightsaber setup/attachment was galen marek. How he attaches his lightsabers is wicked.

-sasori's Avatar


-sasori
03.08.2012 , 09:58 AM | #25
I would say Force Sensitive use the force to operate the switches / buttons / triggers on the lightsabers.

So the Lightsabers do not need necessary have outside visible buttons.

When you disarm them, they trained and learned to purposely let's go / switch /"press" the activation mechanism of a Lightsaber. (Maybe the switch needs constant focusing to operate and will disable with the break of focus)


That concept makes way more sense. Non force users can still operate Lightsabers if they got visible outside switches, and force users do not need to "touch" to change states of the Lightsaber.


I'd personally would make my lightsaber constat float next to my hand, instead of attaching it to my belt and let it swing, but then again i prolly wouldn't be a jedi.
What, wait - I don't even...

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
03.08.2012 , 11:44 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
My personal theory on why lightsabers deactivate upon being dropped, either via being disarmed, killed or knocked unconscious is due to the forging of the weapon.
Not really forged, but constructed (and yes, there is a difference.)

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
Each Jedi creates their weapon personally, it's a final test to determine if they can wield the force properly.
It's not always the final test, but it is one of the most important trials for becoming a full-fledged Jedi Knight.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
When a jedi creates their weapon, they have to meditate and focus on the weapon, often building it by using the force to lift and connect the pieces.
Not quite. They have to attune the crystal to themselves to make it "their" weapon, but a lightsaber will function without a crystal specifically attuned to the wielder. The Force is used in construction, melding the pieces together to create the almost-zero-energy-loss system that allows a lightsaber to function practically indefinitely without being recharged. This sort of process would ordinarily be beyond the capabilities of any but the most powerful Force user, but the Jedi (and, one assumes, the Sith) have "ritualized" the process to the point where pretty much any Force-Sensitive can do it, with the proper training. (Jedi vs. Sith, Page 99, Corran Horn discussing construction of an "improvised" lightsaber, using instructions left behind by his grandfather. This passage does discuss the Jedi using the Force to charge the power cell, and cites this as the source of the misconception that lightsabers are powered by the Force.)

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
This is illustrated by the creation of lightsabers at the forge on tython in the JK/consular prologue, where they use the force to assemble their first lightsaber.
True, that the Jedi uses telekinesis to put the pieces together, but it could be done just as easily by hand. Telekinesis just looks cooler.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
When this happens, the force "binds" the weapon to the jedi and it becomes more then a weapon or a tool, but a piece of the jedi themselves, and they it.
Not quite. The real bond is between the Jedi and the crystal that forms the core of the lightsaber, and gives it unique properties (i.e., the game mechanic effects of the various crystals from various sources. In-universe, these benefits are too slight to be readily noticed, usually. A significant difference is Anakin Solo's lightsaber in the NJO, which used a Yuuzhan Vong creation called a lambent crystal. Being absent in the Force, like the Yuuzhan Vong and all their biotech, Anakin had a very difficult time attuning it to use in his lightsaber, but when he did, he found he could actually sense the Vong in the Force, which no other Jedi could do. After his death, Ganner Rhysode used Anakin's lightsaber to stall. . . well, a whole heck of a lot of Vong warriors. The lightsaber worked perfectly well for him, but did not impart its "Vongsense," because the crystal had been attuned by Anakin, not Ganner.)

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
When in combat, the natural flow of the force being used by the combatant allows their weapon to be more accurate and powerful and the weapon becomes attuned to that jedi.
No. The lightsaber functions all on its own. Only small "bonuses" (from the aforementioned attuned crystal) affect only the one who attuned that crystal. Anyone can pick up and use the lightsaber, and it will function as well for them as it would for the Jedi, and any Jedi can pick up any random lightsaber, and use it (almost) just as well as their own, personal lightsaber.

What makes the Jedi and lightsaber a formidable pairing is the time and training a Jedi spends mastering himself, his lightsaber technique, and the Force. Learning the moves and motions of the various lightsaber Forms will make you an okay lightsaber combatant. Likewise, spending all your time learning to let the Force flow through you, trusting it to control your actions, will make you an okay lightsaber combatant. True excellence with a lightsaber comes from learning both.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
When the weapon is dropped, or the flow of the force from jedi to weapon ceases, so to does the weapons power supply.
Totally wrong. The power cell MAY (does not always have to be) initially charged with the Force, but the weapon functions on its own internal power supply after that. There is no evidence to show that a lightsaber requires Force power to function, in the movies alone, we see Han Solo and General Grievous, both non-Force-Sensitives, use lightsabers (granted, with wildly differing degrees of aptitude.) In the EU, any number of non-Force-Sensitive characters, even droids, have used lightsabers, starting with Princess Leia in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. "But wait," I hear you cry, "Leia is Luke's sister, and she's Force-Sensitive!" Yes, but Splinter was written between ANH and ESB, so that connection had not been revealed. No one but Lucas knew that Leia was Luke's sister and that she could use the Force. Thus, if lightsabers could only be used by Force-Sensitives, her (pathetic) attempt to duel Darth Vader at the climax of the novel would have been a reveal of epic proportions. Lucas okayed everything about the book, and so tacit Word of God is that lightsabers can be used by anyone.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
Not necessarily that the weapon is powered by the force, cause it isn't, but the sabre has a built in fail safe with their connection to the jedi and will de-activate when the flow is stopped.
No. The weapon has a built-in failsafe that when pressure on the grip is released, the blade shuts down. It has nothing to do with the connection or flow of the Force.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
While jedi can use lightsabers belonging to other jedi, the jedi will always attempt to make a new lightsaber as soon as they are able to if their original one was lost - Luke created his own sabre when he became a jedi.
True and false. Yes, Jedi can use any lightsaber (almost) as effectively as one they create on their own. The difference is negligible enough that Anakin and Obi-Wan went to duel Count Dooku, acknowledged as the greatest swordsman in the Order bar none (even Yoda, for all his skill, was not the epic duelist Dooku was), with "strange" lightsabers. However, there is a bonus, so yes, a Jedi will always attempt to carry a lightsaber they have personally constructed. The "false" part is, Luke constructed his new lightsaber before he became a Jedi. In fact, he isn't even a Jedi until, arguably, the last few minutes of RotJ. Yoda tells him as much, that before he can truly be a Jedi, he must confront Vader. I would argue that Luke is finally, truly a Jedi the moment he casts aside his lightsaber and tells Palpatine "I am a Jedi, like my father before me." Since he has confronted Vader, as Yoda told him to, bested him, and turned away from the Dark Side, he has passed the Jedi Trials.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
Vader made a new saber when his was taken by obi-wan, Jacen Solo made a new saber when his was taken by luke and Anakin Solo even rebuilt his saber when his was destroyed on yavin during the Vong War.
Not sure what this has to do with anything.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
It even described in the book how while the components were there, a jedi was not truely ready to wield a saber until they had meditated in the force on it.
Yes and no. A Jedi could make an "unattuned" lightsaber and use it, but it wouldn't be quite right. Given the time Anakin wasted trying to attune the lambent crystal, one could argue that, time being of the essence, he should have just done what he could and gone into battle with an unattuned lightsaber. His gamble paid off, and the lambent turned out to be a superlative lightsaber crystal.

Quote: Originally Posted by BladedDingo View Post
Anakin Solo's unique choice of a lament crystal and the meditation afterwards even allowed him to sense the Vong in the force by channeling his senses through the crystal int he heart of his weapon.
Yes, that's the crystal. The lightsaber itself uses ordinary energy in a loop, resulting a nearly zero power loss. Unless the blade is used continuously for "heavy duty" (cutting through lots of very dense material in a very short span of time) a lightsaber's power is practically infinite. But that has nothing to do with drawing power from the Force.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
03.08.2012 , 11:48 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by -sasori View Post
So the Lightsabers do not need necessary have outside visible buttons.
Some lightsabers have been constructed that way, with internal switches that can only be activated by precise telekinesis. The drawback, of course, is that it's like making the switch VERY tiny and hidden. . . you almost have to search your own weapon every time you want to turn it on, which could be bad.

As for having the lightsaber constantly float by your hand. . . you assume using the Force requires no exertion or concentration. I dare say keeping a telekinetic hold on a lightsaber would be more exhausting than simply holding it in your hand, which is not fatigueless on its own.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.