Force pull/Grapple = OP. Fix it before its too late.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Force pull/Grapple = OP. Fix it before its too late.

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Faat

03.07.2012 , 12:02 PM \| #131	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by VindictiveFX Huttball can be chaos unless you are completely wrecking the other team. Even in an org setting all the planning and gear in the world cant control who you play against how good they are. * What can I do to counter this class or ability ? In a solo Q situation when you happen to get the ball, how can you counter an instant cast 30m ability? There are very few places you can line of sight someone from 30m away that they can no simply change positions or wait till you come out to grab you. There is no counter any one player can do to stop this power. Is the counter having someone that can pull? Ok so now you need 2 people to stop one instant cast power. What if they have two grapplers? Do you need 2 pullers to counter that? Now you need 3 people? * Is this person better geared than me and if so, whats the fastest way to get geared up? Gear is not the issue. I dominate people on my lvl 25 Vanguard whos in lvl 20 pvp gear no matter what lvl they are. * Check and see if other people in my class are having the same trouble as I am, and if not what are they doing to counter this class or that specific ability. Any one who expresses trouble with this power is buried in troll responses or L2P by people who dont want the power changed. The only hope is that Bioware has any common sense and can see how dominate the power can be used correctly. * Then last by not least - Ok so there is nothing I can honestly do, instead of nerfing can I ask for an improvement on an ability that my class as a whole feels would help counter this. There is no power that anyone can do to counter this ability other then to hope you arent stunned and there is someone in position to catch the ball. But combined with the insane burst (which is a whole other issue) and the abuse of the hazards the chances are slim. Plane and simple the issue is the range of this ability. It makes it too hard to counter and too powerful on the busted huttball map. Lowering it to 15 yards would not gimp a class, just put grapple in line with pushes. Nope it wouldn't. It would, on the other hand, completely destroy the only baseline gap closer that PTs and VGs have though. Maybe they should make the leap baseline and grapple specced far in the tank tree. You can't basically think that PTs and VGs don't NEED a 30m gap closer, most of their skills are within melee or 10m range, unless Pyro / Assault specced. So, instead of thinking only about your own class, think about something to replace grapple instead of completely nerfing it to uselessness. 15m is pure non-sense. At this point, no need to use it, 15m don't even separate a target from his guard. But keep with the non-sense either way. Funny to see someone raging in RL when I pull them repeatedly out of their comfort zone.

MartyrLXXVII

03.07.2012 , 12:03 PM \| #132	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by VindictiveFX Huttball can be chaos unless you are completely wrecking the other team. Even in an org setting all the planning and gear in the world cant control who you play against how good they are. * What can I do to counter this class or ability ? In a solo Q situation when you happen to get the ball, how can you counter an instant cast 30m ability? There are very few places you can line of sight someone from 30m away that they can no simply change positions or wait till you come out to grab you. There is no counter any one player can do to stop this power. Is the counter having someone that can pull? Ok so now you need 2 people to stop one instant cast power. What if they have two grapplers? Do you need 2 pullers to counter that? Now you need 3 people? * Is this person better geared than me and if so, whats the fastest way to get geared up? Gear is not the issue. I dominate people on my lvl 25 Vanguard whos in lvl 20 pvp gear no matter what lvl they are. * Check and see if other people in my class are having the same trouble as I am, and if not what are they doing to counter this class or that specific ability. Any one who expresses trouble with this power is buried in troll responses or L2P by people who dont want the power changed. The only hope is that Bioware has any common sense and can see how dominate the power can be used correctly. * Then last by not least - Ok so there is nothing I can honestly do, instead of nerfing can I ask for an improvement on an ability that my class as a whole feels would help counter this. There is no power that anyone can do to counter this ability other then to hope you arent stunned and there is someone in position to catch the ball. But combined with the insane burst (which is a whole other issue) and the abuse of the hazards the chances are slim. Plane and simple the issue is the range of this ability. It makes it too hard to counter and too powerful on the busted huttball map. Lowering it to 15 yards would not gimp a class, just put grapple in line with pushes. No counter you say? In a pug situation you say? Do you have any idea how often pugs max out a ball carriers resolve with stuns and make it so they can't be pulled? It seems not, chain roots are far more difficult to deal with to be perfectly honest and much more common. Every time I run the ball its roots that stop me , not pulls.

Ancaglon

03.07.2012 , 12:04 PM \| #133	Quote
The Sage/Sorceror "pull an ally" ability is far more gamebreaking than this, when the ball carrier has a full resolve bar they can't be affected by enemy knockbacks/pulls at all, but their teammate sage/sorceror can pull them a massive way forward, bypassing traps, and the Z-axis too.

VindictiveFX

03.07.2012 , 12:08 PM \| #134	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yukirshiro Obviously plays a jugg or a sorc. Pull is the only "I win" tool he doesn't get so it seems unfair. Actually, I play a vanguard, merc, sorc and marauder. I have the power and use it plenty. Stuns can not change your position on the map. pushes require you to be in melee range, leaps are only gap closers. You can not leap someone into the fire or acid or leap them away from their entire team. Yes there are many powers that are useful and annoying, but not one of them is instant cast and 30m range that can have as big of an impact on the game. But the trolls will troll. Only about 70% of the responses are the typical L2P random insult responses. I am used to it.

yukirshiro

03.07.2012 , 12:10 PM \| #135	Quote
Friendly pull is arguably much more powerful than grapple. Grapple doesn't work on a resolve maxed target, it doesn't work on a stunned or rooted target, it doesn't stop you from throwing the ball as you are grappled. Force speed is also arguably more powerful than grapple beause it lets you run through fire. Charges are also extremely powerful. Grapple is one element of the tenuous "balance" that exists in huttball. If you nerf it all you do is remove one of the few counters to the other movement abilities. If you have a full team with you all you have to do is throw the ball when you get grappled. It aint that hard. You say it's instant but it isn't. I can't tell you how many times I have been grappled and reacted by throwing the ball to a teammate who was with me.

VindictiveFX

03.07.2012 , 12:17 PM \| #136	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Ancaglon The Sage/Sorceror "pull an ally" ability is far more gamebreaking than this, when the ball carrier has a full resolve bar they can't be affected by enemy knockbacks/pulls at all, but their teammate sage/sorceror can pull them a massive way forward, bypassing traps, and the Z-axis too. For a sorc to pull someone it requires two people in two different positions to affect the game. Grapple takes one. For someones resolve bar to even kick in it means that they have had to survive several CC and running the ball that usually means you are getting healed and have help. if the bar is even 80% filled the grapple will still go off, which means you will get pulled from 30m away. Not every melee class has a gap closer, in fact last i checked vanguards and PT are ranged classes..

yukirshiro

03.07.2012 , 12:21 PM \| #137	Quote
Uh I am pretty sure grappling someone takes two people too. The grappler and the graplee. It is an inordinately powerful ability in huttball but it is not the only inordinately powerful ability. If you want to rework huttball to not be 95% reliant on a bunch of gimmick abilities I support that but just removing one gimmick while leaving the otehrs in only makes it worse. Right now grapple is one of the only counters to the sage and jugg heavy team. If you remove that there will literally be no reason to take anyone but a sage or a jugg.

Nightravn

03.07.2012 , 12:51 PM \| #138	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalliadies Yeah thats what I thought. really not seeing an issue with pull.. The butt hurt sorcs might. Tthe ones that force run away only to be pulled all the way back to their death. There is nothing I love more than this....NOTHING. For Me there is one thing..... and it is when that OP/Scoundrel has just popped from stealth.... has knocked down and is about to unleash unholy hell on one of my team mates... I pull that chump into the acid or fire and laugh as he twitches to death... Now there is Nothing more satisfying than that... cause you know he is just RAGING at his screen.

Froteus

03.07.2012 , 01:01 PM \| #139	Quote
OP must be a baddiemaster. Seriously, learn to counter. Friendly pull works. Oh you shouldnt need another power to counter a power? I've seen that argument. Hi, CC breaks would like a word with you. This game is all about counters. Stop being a bad and crying nerf. PEBCAK issue here folks move along.

SnowVeliers

03.07.2012 , 04:16 PM \| #140	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Asclatorian We should just nerf good players. Problem solved. Oh God best suggestion ever.
Rakgi-Sith Marauder-Shadowtown Rakgi-Jedi Sentinel-Swiftsure

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