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The thought that WoW has more endgame content

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The thought that WoW has more endgame content
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Littletza's Avatar


Littletza
03.03.2012 , 12:32 AM | #381
Quote: Originally Posted by Voqar View Post
bla bla bla.
Why are you referring to WoW at its release? Are you really thinking that devs haven't learnt anything from the past?

FYI you can thank Anarchy Online for the extensive use of instances or did TOR devs come up with that as well....just as the wow devs did?.

Jxspyder's Avatar


Jxspyder
03.04.2012 , 12:29 AM | #382
Quote: Originally Posted by Lethality View Post
And most things are what paying players are looking for.
No, most things are what YOU are looking for. That's it.

Here's an example. I'm a paying player, most of that list is utter trash. See how that works?
Quote: Originally Posted by Shortwave View Post
McDonalds sells more burgers than The Cheesecake Factory - therefore McDonalds makes the better burger.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
03.05.2012 , 10:30 AM | #383
Quote: Originally Posted by Touchbass View Post
When WoW first launched it had over 2 years of log on every day material, 3 hours of content to do whether it was raids/leveling up/farming mats/helping guildies get geared/pvp etc. There was no need for dailies or battlegrounds in beginning, the game kept you hooked on it's own merits.
No it didn't.

At launch, WoW had no structured PvP (no battlegrounds, no ranking, no honor point system, no Arena) - the only PvP was open world and it was pointless as no one could force any zone ownership changes.

At launch, WoW had two raid encounters. Both required immense amounts of fire resist gear that dropped on RNG loot tables. You might get decked out in fire resist in 1 month or 6 months. It absolutely sucked as a raid group to hear, "guys, raid cancelled, we don't still dont' have enough FR" or to hear, "heys, let's go cheese UBRS for the fire resist buff for Rag" - which took about an hour of twiddling around mind controlling spellcasters and casting on 72 people.

Also, WoW did not have raid frames at all. Think about that. Healers could only see the health bar of those in their single group at launch.

Quote:
Then Blizzard realized the only way to increase its playerbase was to make the game more casual friendly (which helped me as I am one). So flash forward to Catacylsm where this is 10 times more content then Vanilla but there is no 'sticky' factor that keeps players on the hamster wheel like Vanilla had. SWTOR ship jumpers see that as proof of WoW faltering but don't realize the same crisis in the WoW model is taking havoc on SWTOR. It's been over a month why haven't they announced 2 million active subs? Cause this model doesn't work anymore.
I don't think it's the "casual" aspect removing the "hamster wheel" so much as it is a mixture of various factors combined, including a downsized economy, people hesitant to leave their friends in other games, people not wanting to "start over" in a new game, and some number of people just getting tired/needing a break from MMO's in general.

It's no secret that TOR end game is still the same gear up/raid/new content patch/gear up/raid cycle just like WoW is. That gets old.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
03.05.2012 , 10:41 AM | #384
Quote: Originally Posted by Touchbass View Post
Putting in content that should of been released with the game is not a content patch.
Well shoot, if you want to claim that - then half of WoW's content patches aren't content patches and should have been released with the main expansion release.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
03.05.2012 , 10:45 AM | #385
Quote: Originally Posted by Lethality View Post
You cannot possibly be calling 1.1 a content patch in the same way, for example, 4.3 was a content patch for WoW.
1.1 was more of a content patch than WoW's ZG/ZA patch was.

Note: both were content patches. They both added content that was not available before the patch.

Gilmcnab's Avatar


Gilmcnab
03.05.2012 , 10:47 AM | #386
Quote: Originally Posted by Yaiser View Post
To de-bunk and explain some thoughts

Thought #1 WoW has more raid content

False - Ever since BC WoW has implemented 2 instances in the first raid tier of an expansion. We are seeing, so far, the same model in TOR. Cataclysm was the exception to this in WoW but the raids easily were considered one raid as clearing both BOT/BWL in one night was common place.

Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

False and LOL @ Cataclysm and Wrath. WoW raids haven't been difficult since BC and the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the past 2 expansions, even on HM, difficulty has been laughable. The first tier in Cataclysm was easy before everyone complained of its difficulty and subsequently got nerfed. Although the difficulty in TOR isn't very high WoW is not any more difficult.

Thought #3 There is nothing to do in TOR at endgame vs. WoW

And what is there to do in WoW? Farm dailies, grind dungeons, raid, farm achievements. Looks pretty similar to the TOR endgame to me. No, TOR doesn't have as many dailies but we're really splitting hairs here. There are no achievements in TOR as of yet but if you are farming achievements you must be pretty bored with a game to do so. MMO's have a grind to get gear at endgame and TOR hasn't changed anything up.

Thought #4 TOR is more aimed at casuals than WoW

Really? LFR is all that needs to be said on that. There is nothing wrong with being a casual, some people realize life is more important than a video game but you can't say WoW isn't aimed at a casual market. In this day and age all MMO's are going to be catering to a casual audience, that is how the market has changed and this is how developer's are going to adapt to stay afloat int he marketplace.

I was not a shot at saying TOR is better than WoW, everyone has their own opinion. These are just some facts that I wanted to throw out there that really in some circumstance these games are pretty even leveled.
You're right... TOR really is just an inferior WoW clone... You sir, have opened my eyes.

Zhit's Avatar


Zhit
03.05.2012 , 11:12 AM | #387
Quote:
No it didn't.

At launch, WoW had no structured PvP (no battlegrounds, no ranking, no honor point system, no Arena) - the only PvP was open world and it was pointless as no one could force any zone ownership changes.
Raeln--I think you hit the nail on the head. Not sure anyone said it better--TOR would have been a great game if it had been released in 2005. It is surprising that smaller companies, Like Tiron, can release a game like Rift--a game that met many of the expectations of the modern MMO gamer at release. Yet the BW team struggles to create a game worth paying the subscription fee.
Why no dual spec? Are dailies only for the DPS classes?
Why do folks not want addons because "they play the game for you", yet don't say a thing about companions.

Gerandar's Avatar


Gerandar
03.05.2012 , 11:15 AM | #388
Quote: Originally Posted by Yaiser View Post
Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

False and LOL @ Cataclysm and Wrath. WoW raids haven't been difficult since BC and the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the past 2 expansions, even on HM, difficulty has been laughable. The first tier in Cataclysm was easy before everyone complained of its difficulty and subsequently got nerfed. Although the difficulty in TOR isn't very high WoW is not any more difficult.
The fact that you think the burning crusade raids were hard is funny, Raids in WoW went downhill once BC was released, the only "hard" raid in TBC was Sunwell and even that wasn't much of an issue for the diehard raiders.

Icebaron's Avatar


Icebaron
03.05.2012 , 11:20 AM | #389
Quote: Originally Posted by Gerandar View Post
The fact that you think the burning crusade raids were hard is funny, Raids in WoW went downhill once BC was released, the only "hard" raid in TBC was Sunwell and even that wasn't much of an issue for the diehard raiders.
There is no way you can claim this. BC raids (prior to nerfs) were waaaaaay more complicated and challenging then anything in SWTOR today.

Magtheridon and SCC were easy? whatever....

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
03.05.2012 , 11:34 AM | #390
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhit View Post
Raeln--I think you hit the nail on the head. Not sure anyone said it better--TOR would have been a great game if it had been released in 2005. It is surprising that smaller companies, Like Tiron, can release a game like Rift--a game that met many of the expectations of the modern MMO gamer at release. Yet the BW team struggles to create a game worth paying the subscription fee.
I played Rift, started playing 2 weeks after release. The only real difference between Rift and TOR is the loading screens between planets, multispecs and only one person needs to reach the dungeon portal for the group to get a teleport offering.

Rift was a large letdown to me because they practically ignored their "cool" invasion mechanic in lieu of the common raid for gear mechanic. I didn't leave Rift because I hated the game, I was unable to entice any of my WoW friends to come over to Rift. Some bought and tried it (or toyed on my account), then deemed it not enough different from WoW to make the switch. Rift being medieval fantasy, I can understand that - at least now anyway.

Dual spec will show up here eventually. It's just unreasonable to expect a new release to have every single aspect of a game that has been live for almost a decade.

As for TOR not worth paying a subscription fee? are you serious? TOR is worth the price of a can of soda per day. Really. I know people that pay $10 a day for energy drinks - 10 minutes and that $2 can is empty and you are claiming TOR isn't worth 50 cents a day?
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