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Expertise - As seen from both sides of the fence. It is broken.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Expertise - As seen from both sides of the fence. It is broken.
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me_unknown's Avatar


me_unknown
03.05.2012 , 04:28 AM | #51
no, expertise ist NOT broken. your observation is FULLY INTENSIONAL and is good as it is. here why:

you need something like expertise to make pvp gear >>> pve gear for avoiding the need of endless grinding gear if you only wish to do pvp. there is to be expected that with new pve content also new and better pve gear apears, so you need a stat not affecting pve but only affecting pvp to not make you need grind in pvp.

actually expertise is TOO WEAK!

regarding the issues a new 50 has...
1. you would have them with or without expertise. because if there would be no expertise than the equip would be on other stats imrpoved and still would make it easy to own any fresh 50
2. so what? it takes only 1-2 weaks even for one with low time available to get good enough gear.

the complains about expertise and fresh 50s vs good geared ones is one of the most stupid complains i ever read in any game forum.

unbelievable!

@VincentWolf: correct: experitce needs to get tripled or even more!

edit: but not the effect on healing. this should either not be changed at all or removed.

Endowed's Avatar


Endowed
03.05.2012 , 04:29 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by rzrknight View Post
So ... you want to play 1 hr a day at most ... and compete with a person playing for months.

Well , ic the problem ... you dont understand how MMOs work at all...
Excellent post.

Not sure how I missed it before.

Endowed's Avatar


Endowed
03.05.2012 , 04:30 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by me_unknown View Post
actually expertise is TOO WEAK!
1-on-1, yes it kinda is.

Team on Team.... it isnt weak at all. Far from it.

lightertripod's Avatar


lightertripod
03.05.2012 , 05:46 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Calomega View Post
Couldn't agree more with the OP. I just got to 50, and went from dealing over 200k damage in almost every WZ, topping the damage charts 90% of the time, to being completely worthless, dealing around 75k per WZ.

Like he said, frustrating doesn't capture the feeling. It is depressing, I don't feel like I even want to spend the time trying to painfully grind out better gear just so I can start having fun.

Expertise should reduce incoming damage ONLY, and not have an effect on outgoing or anything else.
nice answer brain box your issue is you did 200K now you do 75K so you get expertise now you take less damage thus you do less damage this will not keep you at 200K it will keep you at 75K

yes its painful to find gear without but thats a short lived issue if you force pvpers to pve for gear like lot of MMO's thats a longer term much more painful issue I for one would not PVE in this game for gear and I am pretty sure most other pvpers would not either
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Ancaglon's Avatar


Ancaglon
03.05.2012 , 05:59 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Endowed View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Calomega
Listen up pumpkin,

If you got over 400 expertise in 2 days, you play WAY more than the average player. Your argument is thus invalid, and stupid.
Its not from mass hours, its from proper planning.

LEVEL in PVP and not PVE.

FTR: I did the two weeklys (6) and two dailys (2) and had 1 Champ Bag before I hit 50 (1) and 1000/1000 accoms (5-almost, but I did some pvp zones for more wz accoms after purchase) stocked up before I dinged 50 as well.

I opened 14! bags by day two of capping my level.
You just proved his point. Most people don't play this game to level to 50 via PVP. I do have an Alt that's going for the 6 bags + expertise from 46ish weapons route, but even there he's 10 valor ranks below his level because he's done a modest amount of levelling via the storyline and missions.

My experience on entering level 50 warzones matches that of the OP pretty accurately, even though I already had mostly Corellia gear with Belsavis augs and so on. The availability of a "fresh 50 PVP set" would have made that a lot less traumatic.

Magnesium's Avatar


Magnesium
03.05.2012 , 07:35 AM | #56
Firstly, Expertise is broken and not working correctly (In my opinion), simply because having as much Expertise should be the key in PvP but it is FAR from that based on the DR and stats you can pickup from Rakata Gear Vs the BM Gear, I'm not saying you don't have any but you have to balance when adding Expertise actually loses out over other items.

How can you have a PvP stat that is not the best to have at all times?

Next, Rated Warzones should help to add another bracket so new 50s have an easier time because gear is one thing, but team play is also another major part. Helping new 50s get some Exp gear from the start would be a good idea to help them out but I do not agree that a brand new 50 should be on the same level in gear as someone who had to work towards theirs, either have NO gear difference at all or have it make sense...

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origamikitsune's Avatar


origamikitsune
03.05.2012 , 07:50 AM | #57
Hokay. So. I'm a newbie at PvP. I've been doing it for about a week now. And most of that is overnight Central US Time, so its not a lot of experience - never any war zones for four hours at a time, and minimal PVP on illum at best.

When I do get into a full WZ, wherein someone doesn't quit, or we have no healers, they have all healers, etc., etc., and the teams are fairly well balanced, this is my experience as a "new 50 with about the best you can get without being in Champ/Rakata" and all that.

My first day I sucked.
My second day I asked people I had seen before for tips.
My third day I didn't suck.
My fourth day I did ok.

Now, I have two Columi or whatever, my two crafted rakata, and a couple of champion pieces. Its not the best, but its what I've got. I have 94 Expertise. Today I got a comment, "Only 94 expertise? Damn, I thought you had a lot more, the way you play."

Am I the best tank? Not by a long shot. But I hold my own 1:1 against any class (I may loose more than I win, but not without taking the other guy to within an inch of death). I don't feel out classed - I feel out played. Of course I want better gear and the like, but the only time I dread going in to a WZ with my crappy gear is when my group is all PUG, and I see 8 people with the same guild name on the other side.

TL;DR? - OP's experience was not mine. Far from it, I felt the difference was noticeable, but something to be overcome rather than raged against. And I am about as average as PVPers come in terms of skill, more of a PVE'er.

kckkryptonite's Avatar


kckkryptonite
03.05.2012 , 07:52 AM | #58
And what do you suggest? No one is saying expertise doesn't give you an advantage. If you remove expertise or nerf it too much, people will simply gear out in Rakata, which is even less accessible to the casual player/PvPer. You guys really need to think things through sometimes.

I also might suggest to the TS, you look pretty foolish since I don't see how some 10% damage/mitigation from expertise changes a triple digit crit into a 4k crit, it's not JUST expertise. In addition, you are comparing a tank class to a stealth class. When you change classes and specs, things can change; whether it be results and/or survivability.

tldr; you're naive to attribute all of your conceived problems to expertise alone.
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AstralProjection's Avatar


AstralProjection
03.05.2012 , 08:04 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by origamikitsune View Post
Hokay. So. I'm a newbie at PvP. I've been doing it for about a week now. And most of that is overnight Central US Time, so its not a lot of experience - never any war zones for four hours at a time, and minimal PVP on illum at best.

When I do get into a full WZ, wherein someone doesn't quit, or we have no healers, they have all healers, etc., etc., and the teams are fairly well balanced, this is my experience as a "new 50 with about the best you can get without being in Champ/Rakata" and all that.

My first day I sucked.
My second day I asked people I had seen before for tips.
My third day I didn't suck.
My fourth day I did ok.

Now, I have two Columi or whatever, my two crafted rakata, and a couple of champion pieces. Its not the best, but its what I've got. I have 94 Expertise. Today I got a comment, "Only 94 expertise? Damn, I thought you had a lot more, the way you play."

Am I the best tank? Not by a long shot. But I hold my own 1:1 against any class (I may loose more than I win, but not without taking the other guy to within an inch of death). I don't feel out classed - I feel out played. Of course I want better gear and the like, but the only time I dread going in to a WZ with my crappy gear is when my group is all PUG, and I see 8 people with the same guild name on the other side.

TL;DR? - OP's experience was not mine. Far from it, I felt the difference was noticeable, but something to be overcome rather than raged against. And I am about as average as PVPers come in terms of skill, more of a PVE'er.
This, OP's experience is not everyone's experience.

To just as many people, getting a little expertise, or even competing without it is do-able.

With expertise or not, a PVP guild's pre-made is still going to beat you. It's not the expertise.
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Haldern's Avatar


Haldern
03.05.2012 , 08:12 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by kckkryptonite View Post
And what do you suggest? No one is saying expertise doesn't give you an advantage. If you remove expertise or nerf it too much, people will simply gear out in Rakata, which is even less accessible to the casual player/PvPer. You guys really need to think things through sometimes.
This is what I suggest. Make the best PvP gear equivilent to PvE starter epics/blues (PvE stat-wise), make it craftable (and reasonably cheap) and chuck an absolute ton of expertise on it. Everyone can buy it off the GTN when they ding 50. Hey presto, gear doesn't matter anymore in PvP.

PvP ranks provide better looking/rarer gear for something to aim for for the e-peen factor (and lets face it we all love the e-peen factor). Bioware chucks in a new look occasionally to keep things fresh.

This is never going to happen though as the PvP in this game is basically marketed to the kind of player who wants gear to make a difference. The rest of us will have to wait till GW2.
Stating your opinion without explaining it with a rational argument doesn't make a good post. It makes a big pile of steaming dog poo.
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