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Another economic problem!


Tarka's Avatar


Tarka
03.02.2012 , 04:18 PM | #31
I voiced my opinion on the official thread, I basically agree with the sentiments of the OP.
"Orange" Moddable gear essentially renders non-moddable counterparts (green, blue and purple) for the same slots obsolete.

The only time when a player may be interested in non-moddable items is when leveling up. But once they get to end game, that changes because the stats on moddable items are actually better whilst being cheaper than their non-moddable counterparts.

Which means that a player can go from wearing moddable gear, obtained via planet commendations, to "Tier" armour without ever buying non-moddable gear on the GTN.

All they need is commendations for the respective planets to buy the gear, and additional commendations to buy the best armouring / scope mods outside of raiding from vendors on Ilum.

And so, as it stands, there is little reason to buy non-moddable items. A situation which is about to be made worse with the coming patches allowing players to completely strip mods from tier armour and put them into moddable "orange" armour.

So soon, not only will non-moddable crafted gear be rendered useless, but gear from HM FP's and Ops will be partially rendered useless because people will only want the mods in the items, not the items themselves.

/golfclap bioware.
Supporter of having the following in the game:
Full Control Space Combat, More Playable Species (not unlockable),
Swimming, Sitting In Chairs, Planetary Day / Night Cycles and other MMORPG elements
MMO's are not meant to be films, and neither should they be movie-studio set tours

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
03.02.2012 , 04:21 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
I voiced my opinion on the official thread, I basically agree with the sentiments of the OP.

Moddable gear essentially renders non-moddable counterparts obsolete.

A player can go from wearing moddable gear, obtained via planet commendations, to "Tier" armour without ever buying non-moddable gear on the GTN.

And so, as it stands, there is little reason to buy non-moddable items. A situation which is about to be made worse with the coming patches allowing players to completely strip mods from tier armour and put them into moddable "orange" armour.

So soon, not only will non-moddable crafted gear be rendered useless, but gear from HM FP's and Ops will be partially rendered useless because people will only want the mods in the items, not the items themselves.

/golfclap bioware.
Like the OP, I think you're underestimating the amount of 1 - 49 players that don't bother with orange gear.
"I know."

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.02.2012 , 04:22 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Ooshga View Post
With the current official post up about the SWTOR economy I thought I would post up my two cents.

Am I the only one who sees a problem with these "orange" items?
They are great and all that and my problem isn't really with them, its the fact that they have kind of made the market for green and blue items defunct.

No one buys green or blue items, or if they do its only for their companions every now and then. It has created a flooding of these items on the GTN for next to nothing and at the prices I've seen they may as well just vendor them. Its a shame really, it feels like a waste.

I'm not thinking a change to the orange items is needed but surely something can be done to give these poor green and blue items a use in the world?
I do not see this as a real economic problem unless you are trying to earn a living off of selling crafted greens.

IMO, it is the prolific nature of green drops that make greens useless to sell on the GTN. Crafted greens are better then drop greens, and even they don't sell for much.

As for blues, they sell well on my server, but not at premium prices. I farm Champions for rare oranges, I sell the blues for about 80% of default list price and they sell like hot cakes. I vender all greens. Purples sell well at premium prices, but I don't really get too many of them from Champions. Some of the oranges are in very high demand and sell at high premiums to what the crafted oranges sell for.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Tarka's Avatar


Tarka
03.02.2012 , 04:22 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Vecke View Post
Like the OP, I think you're underestimating the amount of 1 - 49 players that don't bother with orange gear.
I edited my post, you are correct yes. However, once a player hits 47 - 50, the moddable gear outstrips and costs far less than non-moddable gear. And that's where the economy should be thriving, with different armour being crafted and sold, because everyone is within the same level range.

All you need is the commendations from the planets to get the inital items, and high end commendations to buy the mods.
Supporter of having the following in the game:
Full Control Space Combat, More Playable Species (not unlockable),
Swimming, Sitting In Chairs, Planetary Day / Night Cycles and other MMORPG elements
MMO's are not meant to be films, and neither should they be movie-studio set tours

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.02.2012 , 04:24 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
I voiced my opinion on the official thread, I basically agree with the sentiments of the OP.
"Orange" Moddable gear essentially renders non-moddable counterparts (green, blue and purple) for the same slots obsolete.

The only time when a player may be interested in non-moddable items is when leveling up. But once they get to end game, that changes because the stats on moddable items are actually better whilst being cheaper than their non-moddable counterparts.

Which means that a player can go from wearing moddable gear, obtained via planet commendations, to "Tier" armour without ever buying non-moddable gear on the GTN.

All they need is commendations for the respective planets to buy the gear, and additional commendations to buy the best armouring / scope mods outside of raiding from vendors on Ilum.

And so, as it stands, there is little reason to buy non-moddable items. A situation which is about to be made worse with the coming patches allowing players to completely strip mods from tier armour and put them into moddable "orange" armour.

So soon, not only will non-moddable crafted gear be rendered useless, but gear from HM FP's and Ops will be partially rendered useless because people will only want the mods in the items, not the items themselves.

/golfclap bioware.
IMO, at cap level, 90% of the economy for gear SHOULD be about orange mod gear AND the mods and augments for them. Gear is disposable below cap, but not really at cap. Yeah, that's new compared to other MMOs, but I feel it is a good direction to head in. Besides, it's not like a lot of end game gear in MMOs is made to be tradeable/sellable anyways.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
03.02.2012 , 04:26 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
I edited my post, you are correct yes. However, once a player hits 47 - 50, the moddable gear outstrips and costs far less than non-moddable gear. And that's where the economy should be thriving, with different armour being crafted and sold, because everyone is within the same level range.

All you need is the commendations from the planets to get the inital items, and high end commendations to buy the mods.
That's a fair point.
"I know."

Tarka's Avatar


Tarka
03.02.2012 , 04:26 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
IMO, at cap level, 90% of the economy for gear SHOULD be about orange mod gear AND the mods and augments for them. Gear is disposable below cap, but not really at cap. Yeah, that's new compared to other MMOs, but I feel it is a good direction to head in.
Problem is, the market then becomes one focused solely on mods, not complete items. now that might be a non-crafters wet dream who yearns for infinite customisation without reliance on crafters. But it essentially makes the majority of crafting professions non-moddalbe schematics obsolete.

If the crafting system was completely focused on mods and moddable gear, then that would be a different situation. But you have professions which rely largely on the crafting and selling of non-moddale items. Some of which do not have the opportunity to craft / sell any kind of "mod" (e.g. synthweaving).

Now, you will notice that the most sought after profession in the game at the moment is biochem. Why? Because the items being made (e.g. stims) cannot be modified by the users. They are bought, used and are therefore taken out of the game. If a player wants more, they have to buy more.

Thus creating a supply and demand situation. And those situations are what keep player driven economies constantly going.

However, once you buy a moddable item, you never actually need to ever replace it. You just keep buying new mods. Thus the item is never "used up" because it has an infinite lifespan. One that is only cut short if the player chooses to delete it or sell it to a vendor.
Supporter of having the following in the game:
Full Control Space Combat, More Playable Species (not unlockable),
Swimming, Sitting In Chairs, Planetary Day / Night Cycles and other MMORPG elements
MMO's are not meant to be films, and neither should they be movie-studio set tours

SpyderBite's Avatar


SpyderBite
03.02.2012 , 04:27 PM | #38
Gosh Darn It.. where is that blasted "I Win Button"?! Stupid game.
I invented "Snarky".

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.02.2012 , 04:30 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
Problem is, the market then becomes one focused solely on mods, not complete items. now that might be a non-crafters wet dream who yearns for infinite customisation without reliance on crafters. But it essentially makes the majority of crafting professions non-moddalbe schematics obsolete.
I agree that it makes non-moddable cap level gear schematics obsolete. These should just be retired from the game IMO, unless they are there soley for skill-ups.

Now, even an orange moddable dominated economy will thrive if the trade professions receive periodic upgrades in their recipes for better and better items and the materials are rare/hard to aquire. In fact it's a good approach for keeping crafting trades viable in a game where raid and PvP commendation gear are going to keep being upgraded over time. Crafted should be on par with non-crafted IMO. In fact, make is better looking high appeal gear to help feed the trade professions IMO.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Tarka's Avatar


Tarka
03.02.2012 , 04:36 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
I agree that it makes non-moddable cap level gear schematics obsolete. These should just be retired from the game IMO, unless they are there soley for skill-ups.

Now, even an orange moddable dominated economy will thrive if the trade professions receive periodic upgrades in their recipes for better and better items and the materials are rare/hard to aquire. In fact it's a good approach for keeping crafting trades viable in a game where raid and PvP commendation gear are going to keep being upgraded over time. Crafted should be on par with non-crafted IMO. In fact, make is better looking high appeal gear to help feed the trade professions IMO.
I agree. You simply cannot have a "half and half" approach with an economy being dependant on moddable and non-moddable items. The former will always dominate over the latter out of sheer convenience.

BUT, and here's the kicker. The moment you go to a system completely dependant on moddable items, you risk the chance of dilluting the entire system. With everyone being able to make the same thing. And once the player has bought their item, they never need a crafter again. Only the mods.

Thus you end up with every item of a particular type being the same and variance being put in the hands of the player wearing it. Resulting in an infinite availability of items.

Thus a "supply and demand" situation (as I mentioned above in my edit) isn't being maintained.

Instead, the situation becomes a "buy once, mod many times" finite market.
Supporter of having the following in the game:
Full Control Space Combat, More Playable Species (not unlockable),
Swimming, Sitting In Chairs, Planetary Day / Night Cycles and other MMORPG elements
MMO's are not meant to be films, and neither should they be movie-studio set tours