This game lacks epeen

Actually I'm not, I hate end-game with a passion so gear isn't even an issue for me as I turn to leveling alts when my main hits max level. But good job at assuming stuff about me

And it's not real life so I couldn't care less about "earning" or "working". It's a video game, it's meant to be a fun, recreational activity and not a job. And since I am not affected in real life by "welfare epics" or whatever and neither is anyone with a healthy attitude towards gaming, I don't care how you got your gear. As long as you're a decent person and don't spoil my gaming sessions.

I'm not against challenging game content or "hardcore" players. I just don't see the point in getting so riled up about something so trivial.

Don't you think the hard core players also want to see the bugs fixed? Hard core players don't want new content either?

Did you not type that out properly?

All of those things you claim are desired by each type of player. There's no reason for the casual players to cry about hard core players wanting more of a challenge.

But group content is no more what casuals are looking for than raiding is.

With regard to XP Gain. The leveling curve in this game is WAY too fast with compared to the amount of end-game content available. Yes, there is much more incentive in this game to play alts (Separate story lines etc) than say Rift, or WoW, or [Insert Random MMO] but that's where it stops.

With there not being enough end-game content to play for the "Hardcores" the leveling curve should be slowed down. I'm not saying to the rate of EVE, or EQ1 by any means but a minor (10-20%) reduction in XP gain would have added a week or two before raiding guilds had 50's in the numbers required to start taking on end-game FP's/Raids.

Even without skipping dialogue, as somone who has ~3-4 hours a day of playtime (by no means hardcore) you reach level cap in under 1 month.

I guess my point being, as a developer, BW needs to walk the line of enough grind to be able to frequently add content for hardcores, but not so slow that casuals end up frustrated. Unfortunately, with how insanely fast you CAN level cap a character in this game, with no solid long-term end-game a lot of hardcores have already left before the 2nd month subscription came due.

I see your point here, but on the flip side, being able to see every piece of gear the game has to offer from day one, leaves nothing for the imagination. The "good ol days" where entire raids would drop 1-2 pieces of gear, that were such massive upgrades that people would blow a months worth of DKP to attain them and getting server/world-first discoveries kept the hardcore players engaged.

I don't think the RNG coding in this game is good enough to handle a system like that, but this game is seriously lacking that sense of awe you get from downing that big bad mob for the first time and discovering something nobody else has.

No, this is not the root of my position, but part of it. It comes down to Risk v Reward. People will always take the path of least resistance, it's in our nature. Running 16-man(person, whatever) Ops on Nightmare has no reward other than a title and being able to say you've done it. There's no reason to do it again, and no reason to "grind" the content when you and 7 buds can run 8-man hardmode a hell of a lot easier for the exact same reward.

I'm not in full Rakata my self, but I still think Rakata gear should not be attainable outside of very rare hard-mode drops, and running nightmares. The drop rates should also be decreased in these to give the hardcores something to grind on. which keeps them playing and paying.

So no, the hightened challenge should not be the only reward to run this content. People who punish them selves on this content would like to show something more than a title for their effort. That why the "hardcores" play, and would continue to grind this content for months if it meant getting 1 more piece of uber gear nobody else has.

This is not me having an eletist attitude, its trying to give some reason for people to run the harder content, because right now there simply isn't one.

I disagree. I'm a casual. I don't raid, no intention on it.

I regularly see other casuals who want to do Heroic 2's and 4's- especially when they realize that often, those 4's can be done by two or three players and a companion. It's a fun, relatively brief time spent (or not, if they really suck) and you're on to newer pastures.

Flashpoints, IMHO are about as far as they really need to go for content- a more complex Heroic, with a neat story and unique loot. Operations? Meh.

If it's taking more than an hour from start to finish, it's the line where casual ends and hardcore begins. I prefer my content in smaller bites.

More assumptions... I'm not asking for gear to be available for purchase, stop making assumptions. I am saying that I DON'T CARE IF IT WAS AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE. I DON'T CARE HOW OTHER PEOPLE GET THEIR GEAR. It makes no difference to me since I'd probably have no use for it anyway. And that poster did not warrant a serious response, which I think I gave you in my previous reply. I'd rather you had responded to that than to my reply to a person who won't even bother to write a coherent post.

This is another reason I hate gear progression... It all becomes material. The driving force is not the challenge or sense of accomplishment, it's the shiny that awaits people in that chest.

If I play a difficult game it will be because I am looking for a challenging game experience at that time. I don't pick it up to get pixelated items, I will do it for the personal satisfaction I will get and I won't care about what others are doing.

Raiding is simply a different game altogether than casual leveling or grouping.

It takes a lot of time, serious coordination of many people and abilities, persistence to continue to do the same encounter over and over again perfected until you get it right.

IF a company puts raiding in their MMOG, there simply needs to be motivation to do that content. This comes in the form of loot.

We can all be condescending and try to spout off about "achievements should stand on its own" but if that were the case we would not have award shows, or merits in sports, or bonuses at work, or medals, coins, achievement tokens etc etc etc.

Either they put in raiding and do it right....specific benefits you can only get by taking on and defeating this content, or they need to take it totally out and make the rewards accessible to everyone.

Some people will never agree with this, but it is what it is and simply what motivates people to raid....the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.

If they said to casuals (which I am now) that you can play all you want but you will never get a new piece of gear, never get a new level, and never get another ability....would any of us really play for long?

Risk and effort vs reward.

Raiding simply takes more risk (repair costs) and effort (coordination, time, patience) and should be rewarded with unique and better rewards.

Everyone CAN raid...it is simply a matter of how important it is to you to make the time to do it.

actually, hardcores and catering to hardcores is MMO death, because they cannot be appeased and burn through content. why do you think all hardcore MMOs fail, or get less hardcore as they go on? because they need to survive.


the fact is the vocal minority doesn't pay any more than the quiet majority, so why cater to them?

doesn't make any sense. cue arrogant hardcore player insisting that he is the lifeblood of TOR.

Good. MMOs are not and never should have been outlets for the Epeen crowd. Take your poor self image somewhere else so we don't have to witness the pathetic spectacle of grown adults compensating by strutting around capital cities/fleets showing off their armor as if they just cured Cancer or solved world hunger.

IMO, if boss guides are required, then game design is a failure. How about instead of having to be 'hardcore' to beat the content, they keep the difficulty where it is and just award a score based on how well you defeated the content?

This way, everyone gets to see it, but for those to whom PvE competitiveness matters, they can have a ladder of sorts, and a reason to keep doing the content even if you have all the gear from it already.