The thought that WoW has more endgame content

yeah but compare a mmo that released 8y ago with a game that released 3 months ago is better.....

completely agree...lvl 60 Naxxramas...0.5% of all players at that time killed a boss in there...but yeah raidcontent is easy in wow.... i lol'd

not to mention that handling 40 members is wwaaaaaayyyyy harder then 16... i lol'd again..

Well this thread is supposed to be about Endgame content, so bringing up achievements, and all the other pointless garbage WoW has introduced since vanilla is fairly irrelevant.

Being a vanilla raider, I loved that difficult, time consuming, large scale raid content blizzard delivered, but compared to this game, there was almost zero content. We had Molten Core for over a year before they even implemented Blackwing Lair.

No one really complained, because MC was difficult. But why was MC difficult? Ridiculous DPS checks, fire resist checks, the game had a built in time-sink. To kill rag, you needed gear and mats that came from MC, so you were genuinely stuck waiting for resets, and hoping for ideal loot drops. My nostalgia tells me this was fantastic, but was it really?

Sure it felt like there was always something to achieve, slowly improving, trying to get rag down a little more each time, but the mechanics were simple, the difficulty felt cheap, when you look back at it. But I still consider that the golden days of raiding.

Ahn'Qiraj came what? 6 or 7 months later. These are big gaps. Sure the content felt polished, and well done but these were really, really big gaps. We're going into month 3 and are already meant to be getting a brand new tier of raid content, that's fantastic.

I can't remember how long it took for Naxx, but it was a whole new level, and while we only got to four horseman, that to me was the pinnacle of raiding. That and the C'thun fight.

I didn't play Burning Crusade, but my friends did, and apparently it was even better, and it hasn't come close since. Came back right at the end of Wrath, and stayed for a few months in Cataclysm.

Was disgusted in how everything worked after that. Stuck around for a while because I liked the people I was playing with, but everything was spoonfed to you. Free loot from heroics at the press of a button, they removed the entire process of gearing up for raiding. Much like TOR has, introduction to raiding was painfully easy, mechanics were decent, but I wouldn't say anything better than this.

But again, was there really that much content? We had BWD with it's 7 bosses, temple of the four winds with two, and bastion with another 5. All of normal mode was cleared in days, and heroics were up to the final bosses within a few weeks. It was 6 months before rage of the firelands came out, after cataclysms release. I'd given up by then, I was bored as ****.

So, sure there was achievement farming (the worst thing to happen to games, ever) there was arena, or battlegrounds (Rated and normal), and farming dailies.

So, we've sort of got achievements through the slightly buggy codex, we've got daily farming for money, we've got 10 raid bosses with 3 difficulty modes at 2 months in, we've got another raid instance coming, we've already had a new dungeon, and have at least one more coming in 1.2. We've already got the battlegrounds, we're about to get rated battlegrounds. All we're missing is Arena.

This is a game that is going on three months old. It has a fair amount of content for a first tier, it just may have been tuned a little bit easier than people were hoping (but to be honest, not much easier than the first tier of cata) It has a second tier coming, which who knows, maybe they've ironed that difficulty curve out a little now. At less than three months in, I'm really not seeing why people are complaining so much about a lack of content. Sure I'd love to have more stuff to do, that'd be fantastic, but for a first tier of raiding, in a brand new MMO? There is plenty. To have a second tier coming so fast? That's excellent.

Now that's not saying the bug-testing department seriously dropped the ball, but that's an entirely different issue.

Your case drops right there.

It just isnt the case. Probably for guilds that rushed to lvl50 and took advantage of the yet broken gear system to get geared in a week and rush the operation content.

I dont know a single guild in my server that has cleared Nightmare mode. SOA hard-mode is pretty challenging and all i saw of nightmare is pretty challenging aswell, with the necessity for everyone in the raid to know what they are doing so they dont wipe the raid.
Theres a new operation coming out next month aswell with 1.2. I'm honestly more worried with Bioware getting the things tested and bug free than to rush it out though. That is the real concern, not this whole myth that all is easy. If you get to 50 a month after the game launched like a normal person, you will not have cleared nightmare mode yet unless you got a whole guild geared up and pulling you through.

Its funny how people easily beat normal mode and think its all a cake walk. Its a phenomenon common on WoW aswell.

Apprantly making content where you wipe over and over is making better content according to some.

Just don't forget we are talking about games that released 8y apart from eachother...IMO a new MMO coming out has to learn from mistakes other MMO's already did...and thats the reason why all MMO's after WoW failed so hard. They all did similar mistakes and nearly no improvements.

And then call it very well polished is a *********** joke....

Why do we 'need' more endgame content?

Why don't we strive for more storytelling content, more interactive content, more ways to make the journey longer and more involved.

Why does every MMO, have a devolve into this cave man mentality of '"My stick is longer than your stick!"

This game is, as far as I can tell, about story telling and creativity. it's about Star Wars, and it's about having fun.

We don't need the toxic pall of Alpha Male Posturing. Save that for TERA, D3, and GW2. >_>

because we are all hunters and gatherers?

When WotLK opened people were pugging Naxx in the first week... Your point is moot.

Given how young TOR is compared to WoW, its like comparing a Shetland Pony to a Shire Horse.

The problem with both WOW and TOR is the same as with Rift and any other MMO following the same model which is the ridiculous idea that content consists of.....

1. Pick up dailies, complete dailies for a little extra item/rep/token just as you did yesterday

2. Repeat the same instances that you did yesterday for a chance at an item/rep/token

3. Repeat the same raid that you did last week for a chance at an item/rep/token


PVP is just as bad with the mini games in a box of predictability that has zero effect on the world and serves solely to drip feed more chances at an item/rep/token


The whole "hop on a treadmill chasing gear" idea to keep players entertained (LOL - entertained!) is severely dated

Luckily companies are beginning to recognise this and are starting to move away from it even with small steps... We have the likes of Secret World, Archeage and Guild Wars 2 all making steps and in some cases leaping as far away from the "standard" model as possible which offers hope to the players that things are finally going to move on to the next stage.

I remember the huge arguments during beta over themepark vs sandbox with so many short sighted players spewing, almost violently, about how it 100% theme park is the only model that works and sandbox is a failure.

Well, look at all of the MMO's hemorrhaging subscriptions whilst being labelled as failures because they all took the strict quest hub to quest hub on rails model to the extreme and dumbed down mechanics and difficulty to such an extent that pre-pubescent children are now able to competenty complete all content if allowed to.

The WOW generation scream "welcome to MMOs" or "how else are they supposed to do it?" because they simply do not know any better whilst those of us who pioneered the genre know what is possible and have watched it slip away whilst companies chase the WOW left overs from the floor for a share of the pie with the exact same recipe in a slightly different wrapper.

I think TOR has accomplished something massive for the industry - it has highlighted in true style due to it's rapdily declining population after such a massive budget and development period that the pure themepark model does not work.

I'm personally looking forward to some innovation coming along now because I'm sure that no investor will touch what is now for some reason refered to as a "traditional" MMO again. Give us something to have pride in again as players and as guilds rather than the utterly forgettable trash that we are spoon fed right now.

Bring on the themepark / sandbox hybrids with meaningful impact by players on the world! Make them feel invested in what they "own" as individuals and as guilds and get rid of the 2 faction crap and the extreme hand holding.

Viva la revolution!


[edit] Typos