The thought that WoW has more endgame content

Possibly because WoW has had 7 years of dev love?

I love SW:TOR as much as the next fanboy... but you can seriously be trying to tell people that TOR raids are just as hard as WoW's can you?

My first week of hitting 50 I pugged EV with random people, and no vent and we cleared all but Soa within 2 hours... the only reason we couldn't beat Soa was because of the literally dozens of bugs.

Now I regularly pug HM EV and always go at least 4/5 with just random people.

Pugs can't even beat 25 man LK in WoW consistently and they outlevel it and out gear it by multiple tiers.

Fruity Pebbles beat the snot out of Lucky Charms and everybody knows it.

To deny that makes you a lepreboi.

I have to disagree with you there. Lucky Charms are better. But then that is my opinion. As is SW:ToR and WoW are both great games. But I can't play WoW due to things Blizzard has done. Blizzcongate

Cookie Crisp...its all about Cookie Crisp!

No, but the 'difficulty' (or lack of) argument seems to be more about everything being inclusive rather than exclusive. In which who cares what the other guy is doing?

WoW usually has more raids at any given time but not by much and nobody who actually does raiding would count old raids in the quation. The fact that some scrubs still run Kara at lvl 85 doesn't mean WoW has more raids, for ex.

At release, WoW had MC (40 man, accessible to few) and UBRS (10 man). It has zero hardmodes or heroics. It had less than a handful of endgame instances.

WoW has several BGs now. WoW had zero BGs at release. It didn't have its first BG until 6 months in and WoW's BGs and PvP were brutally plagued by balance issues to the point of them doing repeated major revamps and ultimately adding the resilience stat (which didn't exist at release).

WoW has rep grinds (they were very primative to nearly non existent for the average person at release) but rep grinds are nothing but misery and not something anybody sane actually wants).

WoW had no heroics at release and the heroics they have now are even more grindy since Bliz pulls the rug out on emblems regularly and bumps them such that you end up grinding instances for higher emblems when the content and loot from the instances themselves are beyond trivial. Even in the beginning, the loot from heroics in WoW is about on par with the loot in TOR's instances - butt useless to people once they get started at all in gearing (crafted is often better, raid loot is surely better, boe's from raids are better - people who take gear seriously trivialize wow 5-man loot almost immediately).

Objectively TOR offers more at release than most games ever did at release, but for whatever reasons, so many players have zero perspective, ignore MMORPG history, and/or have no clue.

TOR does have the serious problem of handing out too easily, especially for PVP, where even the worst solo players can get decked out in purples with zero effort or skill. It's pretty stupid. Doubly because of the ez-mode side and the fact that without challenges, players get bored and whine about lack of anything to do.

How does a developer cater to lazy and useless soloists who want uber rewards for doing ezmode nothing AND give them enough content to keep them happy without actually challenging their one functional brain cell? It's impossible. BW/devs cannot win against the solo scrubs.

You can't compare Cookie Crisp to a cereal that came out in the 80's.

I can't wait for the day that MMO standards aren't what WoW is doing.


I dunno about you guys but I'm sick of WoW, I'm sick of playing games like WoW. It's pretty obvious a lot of people feel the same way but developers keep on tossing out WoW clones thinking it will somehow be competitive with WoW.

People want something DIFFERENT, I don't want to just grind dailies and grind gear for endgame content.

I don't want to grind gear for a month just to be competitive with other players in PVP. I want to just JUMP in on the fun and have a blast, why is it so hard for someone to create an MMO that is fun and not just a mindless grind to get to the fun part but by the time you get there you're so sick of playing the game that it isn't fun?

Thank god the GW2 developers understand people don't want to grind endlessly for PVP gear and making new comers the pvp scene scared to even queue because they get 3 shot by battlemasters.

I just hope for MMO sake that GW2 delivers. I'm sick and tired of everyone hyping up the next "WoW killer" that just ends up being a terrible version of WoW.


These "full fledged" raiding guilds must be bad because I pug DS normal on my server.. I've cleared it 3 times now.

I wonder y this thread is not closed yet lol

Thought #1 WoW has more raid content

WoW could have less content than TOR--but the fact you can clear all of TOR's raid content in nightmare mode in a few hours with zero preparation makes TOR's content insignificant.

Thought #2 TOR raids are too easy vs. WoW

Really? Beating the HM raganaos fight in the last raid takes most guilds over 400 wipes to beat. Most guilds that are working on hard modes in the latest raid have less than 3 (of the 8) bosses down. See above--if you have two hours, you can clear TOR's nightmare raids.


Thought #3 There is nothing to do in TOR at endgame vs. WoW

Oh yes--the TOR end game outside of raids is super engaging--that is why the servers are brimming with people. If the content really was there, people would be logging on every day. Our guild has dropped from over 40 people online all the time, to 5 to 10 players. Most only log on once or twice a week.

Thought #4 TOR is more aimed at casuals than WoW

There is a difference between casual players and a casual game. WoW is definitely an easier game for casual players to find something to do. TOR on the other hand is a casual game--TOR is meant to be played for a few hours then you'll find things get incredibly lonely and boring.