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Orange Gear, Epic Loot and all the Shouting

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Orange Gear, Epic Loot and all the Shouting

Coiffio's Avatar


Coiffio
02.27.2012 , 11:37 PM | #21
I find it funny that in swtor, you actually look worse as you progress.
"Hi, we ask that your posts be devoid of any original thoughts, or opinions, and that you only praise this game blindly. Thank you for your cooperation!"

kedobanfey's Avatar


kedobanfey
02.28.2012 , 12:01 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by genesiser View Post
Answer my question please.

If the idea is to allow you to wear any piece of gear by swapping out mods so you have the same stats, then why have *some* customizable gear have a higher threshold of stats? If you give players two pieces of gear to choose from. One piece has 28 more of any stat of their choosing but doesn't look how they like and the other piece has 28 less stats but looks how they want, chances are, hardcore or casual, that player will choose the item with more stats. Now instead of 1 piece you have 6. (head, chest, legs, feet, bracers, belt, weapon) So instead of 28 less stats you now have 168 less stats. Negative 168 is quite a bit of power loss. Do you really think a person will choose a look over 168 stat points? The answer is no.

So do you really think the system coming out with some customizable gear with higher stat thresholds is actually a good idea and not counter productive towards their goal of letting people wear what they want?

PS I just want to add I like the idea of being able to take mods out of raid and pvp items and being able to put them in any piece of gear. What I don't like is the idea of some customizable gear having a higher threshold than other customizable gear because players will be forced to go with the gear with higher stats and it makes all non crit crafted custom gear worthless.
Be glad to answer your question when you have a succinct one with a question mark ending it so that I understand all references.

I'll try my best however from what you've posted. I have already stated I'm not really fond of some gear having the extra slot, augment slot, whatever thing. I'd like to see it gone altogether so it's not a fuss. Hell I'd like to see all gear made to be orange maybe some is just green to help get you started but even it can have an appearnace form. Appearance slots are great, but the already existing code for orange gear works well too. In fact having to pay to extract mods creates a money sink, good for MMO economies.

As far as I know with existing orange gear there are no thresholds, no limiters. Any mods can push them to the equivilant of any level. Fine by me to remove the whole augment slot thing. No crits, just make the orange piece and let the buyer or crafter enjoy.

If however they are coming out with level 50 oranges somehow being able to bypass level 15 oranges at the base level before modifications then yes that is compeltly counter to the goal of getting people to be able to wear what they like. That is IF they are doing this thing.

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.28.2012 , 12:03 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by kedobanfey View Post
There's been some shouting on this forum I've heard over the upcoming ideas for orange gear becoming more readily available, mostly through crafting.

Not only that I've heard that the greatest wailing and gnashing of teeth has been over the fact that the "epic loot" (raid gear, pvp gear, etc) Will itsel be considered orange gear. It's mods, armoring, barrels crystals, etc will be able to be removed and put onto other orange gear along with set bonuses.

For those carrying on cranky about this change, consdier that you're complaining in the wrong direction. These items must still be gained through the effort of raiding or pvp matches. Someone still has to put in that effort and then the additional effort or in game money spent on crafting or buying the orange gear they can put all these modules in.
If your complaint is about being able to see if someone is geared enough at a glance then perhaps what you should be requesting is a little 'i' icon or something that can be clicked over a selected target that will preform the same function as the Inspect option. Yes this will take more effort and time, but that small amount of time spent to absolutely inspect someone will benefit many other players at the same time, so we ask that you please give u a few moments and effort so the rest of us can enjoy character appearances while we also try to raid very hard for you.

Raiding or PVP, as you see it, is all about effort and strain. The effort of examining each member of your raid or pvp group is an additional strain. Shouldn't it prove if you check everyone how hard you work in your raid or pvp group?

For those who are in support of this kind of change, we need to see you more on the forums, giving good, thoughtful and above all curteous responses in support of this change. As Bioware/EA, like every other company, responds only to metrics we have to provide enough response data for them to move a change we like through to development.

tl;dr versyon:
You wanted a game that wasn't exactly like WoW, so stop shouting down every different than WoW change that comes along
The point is though, if they are going to do this, why dont they just make only mods drop from bosses. I think this whole design is silly. They should just keep it the way it was but actually design a reasonable amount of end game loot instead of being lazy.

Right now for end game PVE, if you count all the tier pieces as 1 set (they look pretty much the same but with diff stats) their are 4 sets in the game for each class, there is no unique loot drops , just loot that is a part of a set.

Those sets are energized xenotech, exotech, and then the tier pieces. That just seems lazy IMO. Not to mention commendation vendors give the same loot as HM Fp's, HM FP's give the same loot as normal and hard mode ops, 16 mans and 8 mans also drop the same loot. Why cant each of these above mentioned things have their own loot table.

And its silly for them to insist on going down the route of making epic gear like orange gear, like i said whats the point in even having it then? Why not just have the bosses drop mods (which i think would be even sillier but thats basically what they are doing anyways) Think of the new epic system like this, an epic item is now a lockbox with mods in it, or something like that. Its silly.

This whole loot system design is gonna get really messy =/

kedobanfey's Avatar


kedobanfey
02.28.2012 , 12:12 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Why not just have the bosses drop mods
Not compeltly a bad idea, but good looking gear could drop as well. It may seem silly to you but there are a lot of people who would enjoy looking their own particular way instead of how raid gear defines how they must look.

Otherwise every raid become a formal dance, every PVP match becomes a buisness work day. C'mon guys, embrace casuall fridays

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.28.2012 , 12:13 AM | #25
This is the proposed system i think they should go with. They should keep epic drops the way they are, where set bonus's dont transfer etc, and add more of that gear so not everyone looks the same.

On top of that, for people who would like to use orange gear, they should have an armoring that drops off of each boss that has a tier set bonus. This system would make a hell of alot more sense in my mind, and it wouldnt give BW the go ahead to continue to be lazy with the epic drops in PVE in this game. If end game starts revolving around just pilfering mods out of items what need do they have to add loot tables to nightmare mode, or give 16 man raids their own loot, or give HM FP's loot that differs from normal mode operations. It doesnt it gives them an excuse to add just 1 or 2 new sets for each new content patch and thats it.

I dont want this game to be like wow in alot of ways, but i want to to be MMO like for its loot systems, they are basically making end game loot worthless and taking away alot of the fun of appearance progression.


I fully support the idea of orange items, and using them at high level, but I also really like having rare drops off bosses that arent part of sets, new epic items that have unique looks, non tier non set pieces that make your character look unique.

I really think they did the loot system backwards in this game, leveling up the loot system is very diverse, but then you get to the end game and your options are so limited. They really should have done it the other way around if they didnt have time to make both of them diverse.

justregularjoe's Avatar


justregularjoe
02.28.2012 , 12:17 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Maltuvion View Post
Except the hardcore raider will additionally have to craft an obscene amount of orange items for each slot in order to get a Mastercraft procc, which translates into +28 to whatever stat he desires. Per item slot.

Raiders will have to put alot more effort into gearing than casuals, on top of actually doing the raiding.


Not true, since people have cleared Nightmare mode in Tionese/Columi gear.

If you assume BW knows how to balance encounters then...well....don't know what to tell you.

Hardcore raiders will NOT need to do that...it is just an option. Besides, that is what hardcore players LIKE to do (min/max).

What is your argument about, anyway ?

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.28.2012 , 12:24 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by kedobanfey View Post
Not compeltly a bad idea, but good looking gear could drop as well. It may seem silly to you but there are a lot of people who would enjoy looking their own particular way instead of how raid gear defines how they must look.

Otherwise every raid become a formal dance, every PVP match becomes a buisness work day. C'mon guys, embrace casuall fridays
Okay but wouldnt it be a better idea to have a system that is something like this:

Have epic armoring WITH SET BONUS's drop off of each boss, or maybe you could also buy these epic armorings from commendations. But keep epic loot drops from raids and flashpoints the way they are, with only mods and enhancements being moddable.

It just gives bioware an excuse to be lazy with their loot tables and keep it the way it currently is. Think about how loot works in PVE end game right now. HM Fp's drop the same loot as normal ops and some of the same loot from HM Ops as well. Commendations vendors als give you that exact same loot. 16 man raids also give you the same loot as 8 man raids(which is also the same loot you get from comm vendors and HM FPS), and nightmare mode gives the same loot as hard mode Ops.

Doesnt that sound really lazy to you, this new system gives them an excuse to just keep on doing that

Matte_Black's Avatar


Matte_Black
02.28.2012 , 12:34 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by ShadowOfVey View Post
The only thing I don't like about it is the way augment slots are handled.

It sucks that you're actually FORCED to opt into the system due to needing the open aug slot. There should be some npc that will add an aug slot to an item for a high price (or crafted items that add an aug slot to an item that take expensive mats, either is fine with me).

If it was relatively expensive to do, it'd still be desirable to grab the moddable orange items from crafters instead but at least if you wanted to have the look of your original gear you could do so.
Forced? If you feel like this change is "forcing" you, you could probably use the extra bit of inconvenience introduced into your life.
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kedobanfey's Avatar


kedobanfey
02.28.2012 , 12:48 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Okay but wouldnt it be a better idea to have a system that is something like this:

Have epic armoring WITH SET BONUS's drop off of each boss, or maybe you could also buy these epic armorings from commendations. But keep epic loot drops from raids and flashpoints the way they are, with only mods and enhancements being moddable.

It just gives bioware an excuse to be lazy with their loot tables and keep it the way it currently is. Think about how loot works in PVE end game right now. HM Fp's drop the same loot as normal ops and some of the same loot from HM Ops as well. Commendations vendors als give you that exact same loot. 16 man raids also give you the same loot as 8 man raids(which is also the same loot you get from comm vendors and HM FPS), and nightmare mode gives the same loot as hard mode Ops.

Doesnt that sound really lazy to you, this new system gives them an excuse to just keep on doing that
So after all this, leave things the way they are? Change nothing? Then it really does become WoW with another skin. The exciting thing was that it was going to be something different. Try something different. But then it's just too far from the famliar so don't bother changing it?

AJediKnight's Avatar


AJediKnight
02.28.2012 , 12:52 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by kedobanfey View Post
There are a dozen differen types of orange type gear appearnces so there will not likely be any kind clones wandering about. Much less so than anything you'd see at the high end today anyway. I can agree that the extra audment slot could be something left out since it makes that particualr kind of orange gear nearly mandatory. However just because there's this possible flaw doesn't mean the idea as a whole needs to be shut down as most hard core people seem to be trying to do.
I think you fail to understand how the new system will work. Because the "critted" crafted orange gear will be the only gear out there with 4 slots, it will be the only thing people are wearing. There are only a handful of craftable orange "looks" per class; probably on the order of 2-3. Additionally, a lot of this gear clashes with each other, so expect to see people running around in mismatched clown costumes simply because that's the best gear.

Bioware needs to remove the critted slot so that dropped oranges are just as good as crafted ones. Then you'd see the system finally fleshed out the way it was intended. As it stands now, this represents one step to the side, and one giant leap backwards. I wish these people actually knew something about what their customers want, or how to design games for that matter.
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