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The end game PVE content is great, its execution however was poor.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The end game PVE content is great, its execution however was poor.

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 08:59 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by IIII-IIII-IIII View Post
Ironic because this is primarily the segment that you're long post states has "nothing to do."
Originally i said hardcore players have nothing to do , i changed it to "PVE players" a few minutes ago. Also i didnt say nothing to do my wording was " have/has something to do" I guess its a glass half full glass half empty kind of thing I chose the former you chose the latter.

I wasnt even stating that i was one of those players, i have 6 piece rakata and still need a quite a few pieces from hard modes, but i can see it being a problem for alot of people. Honestly i can see it mainly being a problem for the more casual player. Its so ridiculously easy to get columi that "the more casual" player will be left with nothing to do much quicker than a hardcore player(i need to find another term to describe this type of player as running a hard mode Op twice a week doesnt mean your "hardcore" lol). I got full columi in 2 days of playing 4-5 hours, now suddenly if im a casual and have no interest in harder raids etc I am left with very little to do all of a sudden if my main interest is PVE.

Im really just suggestion a better loot system that slows down progression by giving players more options. Have commendation vendors have their own loot, have 16 mans have their own loot and HM FP's as well.

FourTwent's Avatar


FourTwent
02.26.2012 , 09:02 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
No you dont understand I never once said they should make normal mode harder it is aimed at casuals, and i think i should change that fromm the "hardcore" players. You dont need to be hardcore to raid, especially in this game. The first time I did EV normal my guild had just formed none of us knew each other , our gear was pretty terrible and we 1 or 2 shot every boss except soa which took us 4 tries. Regardless our guild isnt anything special we dont take raiding to seriously we dont have gear requirements for coming to raids etc.

I still think any casual who has any interest in raiding and does a little research on the bosses would have no problem reproducing the exact same results that we had our first night in there, that is too easy, and there is no progression involved with it. Im not asking for it to be infintely harder what im saying is that the operations need a sense of progression, you shouldnt beable to go into a Operation with preraid gear and knock down all the bosses their should be stricter GEAR checks (there is a difference between stricter gear checks and making it harder) so that maybe you need to clear the first 2-3 bosses a few times and get your guild geared up before you can get to the next boss etc.

Regardless my main point is that casuals can experience all the content in normal modes and thats fine, leave them easy, hard modes on the other hand are still very easy, none of the mechanics change just more health and more damage. Not to mention they give no incentives for going into nightmare mode or doing 16 mans, beyond it just being an extra challenge most people play MMO's for a sense of character progression, and that shouldnt stop because a few casuals feel cheated because they cant run the hard stuff. Its not impossible for anyone to get into raiding seriously , its fine if they dont want to but the rest of us shouldnt be punished because people dont want to raid or because they dont want to progress beyond a certain point.

Also i hate it when people say they will be catering to 1% that is so ridiculously untrue. Okay so excluding PVP people who have no interest in PVE , your telling me that right now only 1% of the people who play this game are clearing bosses on hard modes?

On my server at least 50% of PVE players have quite a few columi pieces, and dont tell me "they were running HM FP's" because they probably where but those are supposed to be "tuned" higher than normal mode operations and i beleive that alot of them are. If i went around the imperial fleet and started inspecting players and disregarded all the PVP players I would see alot of players in Columi and still quite a few in Rakata (meaning they are running HM Ops) so dont give me this 1% crap. Honestly what are these PVE Casuals doing then 3 weeks after they hit 50? They just do normal mode and say "okay thats it for me i guess im done"

Also i havent heard any so called casual or anyone at all really say that the operations in this game where too hard at least not anything beyond dealing with bugs.
Wasn't the reason for the thread because you thought you got gear too quickly? Not specifically the difficulty. . .but time invested?

edit - oh, i see i brought difficulty into it XD

but it does go both ways, difficulty and time investment are a big gripe from the casual players

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 09:05 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
Wasn't the reason for the thread because you thought you got gear too quickly? Not specifically the difficulty. . .but time invested?
Sort of, but just slowing down the loot doesnt solve the problem. What point are you trying to make sorry its 7am and I havent slept yet.

IIII-IIII-IIII's Avatar


IIII-IIII-IIII
02.26.2012 , 09:07 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Sort of, but just slowing down the loot doesnt solve the problem
For the record: I agree with you.

I stated from the first week (in fact, even in BETA I posted about it) that the leveling/progression was far too easy and would become an issue for those that lack patience.
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Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 09:09 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
Wasn't the reason for the thread because you thought you got gear too quickly? Not specifically the difficulty. . .but time invested?

edit - oh, i see i brought difficulty into it XD

but it does go both ways, difficulty and time investment are a big gripe from the casual players
Yes but your not talking about specificallly for this mmo your talking about for mmo's in general in terms of the gripe from casual players.

I read these forums quite often and i have never once heard a "gripe" from a casual player about time investment for gear (in the PVE sense, ive heard it for PVP) or difficulty complaints beyond bugs. (ie. there was a bug that was stopping progression)

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 09:13 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by IIII-IIII-IIII View Post
For the record: I agree with you.

I stated from the first week (in fact, even in BETA I posted about it) that the leveling/progression was far too easy and would become an issue for those that lack patience.
Yea, i honestly have the patience im just hoping they dont use the same system of sharing loot between commendation vendors , HM FP's , And ops. For future raids Op's and dailies. IF they introduce unique loot to each of these it will vastly improve replayability and increase the amount of time it takes to progress.

It just makes the developers look lazy as well.

FourTwent's Avatar


FourTwent
02.26.2012 , 09:15 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Sort of, but just slowing down the loot doesnt solve the problem. What point are you trying to make sorry its 7am and I havent slept yet.
I made an edit to my preview post. I was the one that brought difficulty into the thread.

I'm not saying im a casual player, nor am I a hardcore player. I'm just someone with an open mind presenting you the argument from the side of the casual players.

Make the content too hard or the gear too much of a grind, and you piss off the casual players. . .make it too easy and you piss off the hardcore players.

As an investor in a game, which would you prefer to make the game for?

I have faith in Bioware though, maybe blind faith, but I will give them the opportunity and see how they deal with the 'issue' If it bites me in the *** then I'll learn. . .but so far I've been very happy with how Bioware has done the game(at least in comparison to the last MMO i played).

btw - I play pvp almost exclusively, so I can't comment on whether or not I think it's too easy or you get the gear too quickly. I've only done a few HM flashpoints. . .and even less normal most flash points(but my last MMO was pve only, so I feel I do have a grasp on what is or isn't too hard/too long of a grind). I kinda look at it as im saving the content for later since I'm having so much fun doing the pvp/leveling content.

FourTwent's Avatar


FourTwent
02.26.2012 , 09:17 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
I read these forums quite often and i have never once heard a "gripe" from a casual player about time investment for gear (in the PVE sense, ive heard it for PVP) or difficulty complaints beyond bugs. (ie. there was a bug that was stopping progression)
as do I. and you're correct. . .but you do hear the complaints from the hardcore players saying it's too easy and doesn't take enough time invested

Fendril_Tharkun's Avatar


Fendril_Tharkun
02.26.2012 , 09:18 AM | #39
sorry but the end content is not great, nice try but seriously ... NO.

Jett-Rinn's Avatar


Jett-Rinn
02.26.2012 , 09:34 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Gohlar View Post
Translation: Design for the lowest possible denominator or people will quit .
Translation: Make it harder so I can whine it still isn't hard enough or I'll go home.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gohlar View Post
I think think SW has proved that incorrect as people are leaving this game in droves.
People like you keep saying that; yet Bioware, PC Gamer G4, Gamsutra and the Escapist tell us that the game is still growing.

Hard-cores may be leaving in droves but this isn't a hardcore game, for every one that leaves two people who are sick of the whole Raid or die gestalt takes their place; and now that GW2 is proving to be unbelievably brutal even in the leveling game guess where a huge contingent of players will stay?


The genre is changing there are many types of MO's for many types of players; deal with it.
No one hates Star Wars as much as "Star Wars fans"