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The end game PVE content is great, its execution however was poor.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The end game PVE content is great, its execution however was poor.

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 02:29 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Xtroll View Post
I do agree with you, I just dont belive they actualy will add new gear in the current content. But we can allways hope for more variety in future ops and patches...

I found the Q&A post I refering to and quoteing it just to clear things up:

ref: http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012


Im really not trying to take a Answer out of context here, But this is generaly the only "Answer" I seen from the devs on the topic, If it's eaven related... Thats for you to decide, I might be reading to much between the lines here.
Yea ive read through that answer multiple times. I will remain hopefully optimistic

And also as much as I would like them to add new gear to the current content I agree with you that this probablly wont happen but as I said above , I just hope they dont continue down this same path of rehashing loot drops in every aspect of end game PVE.

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 04:43 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Forsbacka View Post
Well i wont see next Operation since me and most of guildies quit already raiding or whole game but i hope for the people that are in it for raiding and will stay to play the game that you are true.
I hope so as well. They need to something , blowing through all of the raid content in a few weeks (you can only be saved once a week so its not like im just plaiyng 50 hours a week and blowing through all the content too fast) and have nothing left to do for PVE progression for the next month and a half or more should not be a pattern that BW wants to repeat with this upcoming patch.

Also if commendation vendors actually had their own unique loot so it made it worthwhile to still be running HM FP's that would be awesome, i found the hard mode flashpoints to be one of the best points of the game, and i still run them for fun on occasion , having an incentive to run them all again would be great though (beyond making a new toon which is what im doing right now). Its silly to have commendation vendors have the same loot that you get fromm HM FP's and then also to have Normal ops 8 and 16 man drop that exact same loot (and oh wait i forgot hard mode ops drops some of that same loot as well lol)

rkopczak's Avatar


rkopczak
02.26.2012 , 05:54 AM | #23
Agree with OP on every word, progression should be really slowed down.
It was so easy to do, just increase difficulity between hardmode and nightmare, give them separate loot, and here we go - we just doubled our content.

Yeah, it's also sad there's no point of running flashpoints as you gear up, there shoild be some fluff to get, like really rare social gear or whatever, to keep people interested.

I hope BioWare seen all that and will make changes on next operation.
For Hope, for Freedom, For the Republic!

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 07:26 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by rkopczak View Post
Agree with OP on every word, progression should be really slowed down.
It was so easy to do, just increase difficulity between hardmode and nightmare, give them separate loot, and here we go - we just doubled our content.

Yeah, it's also sad there's no point of running flashpoints as you gear up, there shoild be some fluff to get, like really rare social gear or whatever, to keep people interested.

I hope BioWare seen all that and will make changes on next operation.
Thank you. Yes it was so easy to do, it would also be so easy to fix this problem. Adding more gear and lowering the rate at which it drops is much easier than having to create raid content at a rapid rate because people are getting through it to fast they are really kicking themselves in the teeth here and creating a problem where their doesnt need to be one. Add more loot , give HM FP's their own drops and 16 mans their own drops, boom problem solved. Oh and give nightmare their own drops as well, like you said even just adding one of these suggestions effectively doubles the content, if they lowered the drop rate as well its even more than double. Lowering the drop rate makes the gear seem more valuable to the player, if its easy to get then the sense of accomplishment fromm getting it is diminished.

They need to have a big operation as well (hopefully the next one) like an operation with more than 5 bosses, a 10 boss operation, that sounds good

Azzras's Avatar


Azzras
02.26.2012 , 07:44 AM | #25
Solution:

Increase NM mode boss health and dmg output.

Decrease number of drops to say 2 for 8m, and 3-4 for 16m.

Slightly increase current NM mode loot stats.

profit.
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FourTwent's Avatar


FourTwent
02.26.2012 , 08:29 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
I think the end game is great to be honest, but the execution of it was poor. For PVE they made progression far too easy. If raid bosses dropped less loot and where harder , the hardcore plaayers would still have something to do.
But then the casual players wouldn't be able to complete the content. . .or get bored of the asian grind.

Sooooo, do you piss off the 1% of hardcore raiders. . .or do you piss off the 99% of the casual players?

This is the same issue I saw in the last MMO I played(which was my first). The elitists say it's too easy, and the casuals say it's too hard.

It's very logical, but ANY gaming company would be stupid to make a game for the 1%. I'm sorry, that's just not a smart business decision.

edit - what does sound logical is that a company can make a game cater to both crowds. . .but the reality is, you can't. . .or its incredibly hard.

Even something like 'nightmare modes' being catered toward the hardcore gamers, is only going to piss off the casual players since there will be content(and loot) in game that they can't complete(and obtain). Maybe it'll piss off less people, but in my experience the 99% casual players can be just as loud and obnoxious as the 1% elitists.

rkopczak's Avatar


rkopczak
02.26.2012 , 08:41 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
But then the casual players wouldn't be able to complete the content. . .or get bored of the asian grind.

Sooooo, do you piss off the 1% of hardcore raiders. . .or do you piss off the 99% of the casual players?


Even something like 'nightmare modes' being catered toward the hardcore gamers, is only going to piss off the casual players since there will be content(and loot) in game that they can't complete(and obtain). Maybe it'll piss off less people, but in my experience the 99% casual players can be just as loud and obnoxious as the 1% elitists.
Well, I'm not a best football player in the world so I don't earn milions per week, it's logiocal and I dont complain about it, so why are all the people in mmo have to wear best gear?
If you are good, you will earn it, if not - stick to something easier.
That's life, nothing is fair and equal, or they could just email everyone best gear in the game after dinging 50.
For Hope, for Freedom, For the Republic!

FourTwent's Avatar


FourTwent
02.26.2012 , 08:46 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by rkopczak View Post
Well, I'm not a best football player in the world so I don't earn milions per week, it's logiocal and I dont complain about it, so why are all the people in mmo have to wear best gear?
If you are good, you will earn it, if not - stick to something easier.
That's life, nothing is fair and equal, or they could just email everyone best gear in the game after dinging 50.
I'm not saying its right, or "logiocal" . But the argument is there.

They pay to access the content just like you did. Maybe they dont have 100+ hours a week to dump into an MMO, maybe they only have 5 or 10. So should they be 'punished' because they have real life priorities?

What it boils down to is the $$$. They are the 99%. Any smart company(not specifically gaming) will cater to the majority of their market. Simple as that

Samborino's Avatar


Samborino
02.26.2012 , 08:48 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by FourTwent View Post
But then the casual players wouldn't be able to complete the content. . .or get bored of the asian grind.

Sooooo, do you piss off the 1% of hardcore raiders. . .or do you piss off the 99% of the casual players?

This is the same issue I saw in the last MMO I played(which was my first). The elitists say it's too easy, and the casuals say it's too hard.

It's very logical, but ANY gaming company would be stupid to make a game for the 1%. I'm sorry, that's just not a smart business decision.

edit - what does sound logical is that a company can make a game cater to both crowds. . .but the reality is, you can't. . .or its incredibly hard.

Even something like 'nightmare modes' being catered toward the hardcore gamers, is only going to piss off the casual players since there will be content(and loot) in game that they can't complete(and obtain). Maybe it'll piss off less people, but in my experience the 99% casual players can be just as loud and obnoxious as the 1% elitists.
No you dont understand I never once said they should make normal mode harder it is aimed at casuals, and i think i should change that fromm the "hardcore" players. You dont need to be hardcore to raid, especially in this game. The first time I did EV normal my guild had just formed none of us knew each other , our gear was pretty terrible and we 1 or 2 shot every boss except soa which took us 4 tries. Regardless our guild isnt anything special we dont take raiding to seriously we dont have gear requirements for coming to raids etc.

I still think any casual who has any interest in raiding and does a little research on the bosses would have no problem reproducing the exact same results that we had our first night in there, that is too easy, and there is no progression involved with it. Im not asking for it to be infintely harder what im saying is that the operations need a sense of progression, you shouldnt beable to go into a Operation with preraid gear and knock down all the bosses their should be stricter GEAR checks (there is a difference between stricter gear checks and making it harder) so that maybe you need to clear the first 2-3 bosses a few times and get your guild geared up before you can get to the next boss etc.

Regardless my main point is that casuals can experience all the content in normal modes and thats fine, leave them easy, hard modes on the other hand are still very easy, none of the mechanics change just more health and more damage. Not to mention they give no incentives for going into nightmare mode or doing 16 mans, beyond it just being an extra challenge most people play MMO's for a sense of character progression, and that shouldnt stop because a few casuals feel cheated because they cant run the hard stuff. Its not impossible for anyone to get into raiding seriously , its fine if they dont want to but the rest of us shouldnt be punished because people dont want to raid or because they dont want to progress beyond a certain point.

Also i hate it when people say they will be catering to 1% that is so ridiculously untrue. Okay so excluding PVP people who have no interest in PVE , your telling me that right now only 1% of the people who play this game are clearing bosses on hard modes?

On my server at least 50% of PVE players have quite a few columi pieces, and dont tell me "they were running HM FP's" because they probably where but those are supposed to be "tuned" higher than normal mode operations and i beleive that alot of them are. If i went around the imperial fleet and started inspecting players and disregarded all the PVP players I would see alot of players in Columi and still quite a few in Rakata (meaning they are running HM Ops) so dont give me this 1% crap. Honestly what are these PVE Casuals doing then 3 weeks after they hit 50? They just do normal mode and say "okay thats it for me i guess im done"

Also i havent heard any so called casual or anyone at all really say that the operations in this game where too hard at least not anything beyond dealing with bugs.

IIII-IIII-IIII's Avatar


IIII-IIII-IIII
02.26.2012 , 08:49 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Samborino View Post
Sorry ill make one , gotta appease the ADD generation lol
Ironic because this is primarily the segment that you're long post states has "nothing to do."
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