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Sorcs and Sages need 2 Stances so they cannot Heal and DPS at the same time.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Sorcs and Sages need 2 Stances so they cannot Heal and DPS at the same time.

warkat's Avatar


warkat
02.24.2012 , 07:55 PM | #351
you make it sound like they can do 500k dmg and 300k healing in the same wgz...more like 500k / 40k healing.
Rendz - 50 Jedi Sentinel
<Jedi Academy>
DWC PvP East

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.24.2012 , 08:00 PM | #352
Quote: Originally Posted by warkat View Post
you make it sound like they can do 500k dmg and 300k healing in the same wgz...more like 500k / 40k healing.
Casting bubble on yourself will do more than 40k, by itself. Add casting it on other people and tossing some random heals and yeah, it's possible.

Visue's Avatar


Visue
02.24.2012 , 08:06 PM | #353
In response to the OP, as a DPS sage I have two heals, Benevolence and Deliverance.

At 50 in Champion gear (with a few hundred alacrity, which does almost nothing for us):

Benevolence has a 1.3-second cast time and typically heals for 1000-1500. (about 1/16-1/12 of my health bar)

Deliverance has a 2.3/2.7-second cast time and heals for 2000-2500. (about 1/8-1/6 of my health bar)

The shield absorbs 2,500-3,000, and produces a 17/20-second debuff on its target that prevents the shield from being cast again for its duration. This provides a bit of mitigation to keep us alive while wearing light armor.

The heals afford zero mobility, can very easily be interrupted and neither of them returns as much HP as a single hit from a melee class.

Quote: Originally Posted by jcyrus View Post
It's a good question.

But I think the main issue with Sorcerers/Sages isn't that they can switch between DPS and healing abilities on the fly. The issue is that they can spam these abilities virtually endlessly.

Sith Warriors / Jedi Knights are restricted by Rage / Focus.
Imperial Agents & Smugglers are restricted by Energy.
Bounty Hunters / Troopers are restricted by Heat / Ammo.

Sorcerers are supposed to be restricted by Force, but this really isn't the case.

The size of their Force pool compared to the costs of their abilities allows them to churn out damage and heals at a rare higher rate than any of the other 3 class types. Warriors can burn through a full Rage bar with a handful of attacks, while the other classes can quickly find themselves with a full heat bar, an empty energy bar, both of which empty/refill at a snail's pace once down to one >.
This is just plain wrong, at least when it comes to the hybrid sage specs. I'm hybrid-specced, and even when conserving force I run out within 1-2 minutes of solid fighting in a WZ. After that point, I must leave combat and find a place to meditate for about seven seconds: no small feat. More often, I just die.

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.24.2012 , 08:13 PM | #354
Quote: Originally Posted by Visue View Post
This is just plain wrong, at least when it comes to the hybrid sage specs. I'm hybrid-specced, and even when conserving force I run out within 1-2 minutes of solid fighting in a WZ. After that point, I must leave combat and find a place to meditate for about seven seconds: no small feat. More often, I just die.
A mercenary's bigger heal takes 25% of their ammo. For a Sorcerer it's closer to 11%.

They also regenerate ammo much slower when they're out of ammo, compared to when a Sorcerer is out of Force.

A Mercenary regenerates 0.24 ammo a second when they're out of ammo.
They regenerate 0.36 ammo when they're very low.

When out of ammo that's 12 seconds to be able to cast one big heal.
When nearly out of ammo that's 10 seconds to be able to cast one big heal.

Mercenaries also regenerate ammo quicker when they're higher up, comparatively, just saying that if you feel like you're running out of Force quickly, EVERY other class is much much worse.

Acyu's Avatar


Acyu
02.24.2012 , 08:18 PM | #355
Quote: Originally Posted by savionen View Post
Casting bubble on yourself will do more than 40k, by itself. Add casting it on other people and tossing some random heals and yeah, it's possible.
500k/300k is really not possible.

bellok's Avatar


bellok
02.24.2012 , 08:21 PM | #356
Quote: Originally Posted by Acyu View Post
500k/300k is really not possible.
it really isn't tbh. Sorcs even when they are good only average 200k damage/200k healing. If they are really lucky they can hit 300k-400k for one, they can't do it for both. These guys are way over exagerating this issue.

Visue's Avatar


Visue
02.24.2012 , 08:23 PM | #357
Quote: Originally Posted by savionen View Post
A mercenary's bigger heal takes 25% of their ammo. For a Sorcerer it's closer to 11%.

They also regenerate ammo much slower when they're out of ammo, compared to when a Sorcerer is out of Force.

A Mercenary regenerates 0.24 ammo a second when they're out of ammo.
They regenerate 0.36 ammo when they're very low.

When out of ammo that's 12 seconds to be able to cast one big heal.
When nearly out of ammo that's 10 seconds to be able to cast one big heal.
I've never played a mercenary, so I'm afraid can't comment on that.

I do know that as a TK/Balance hybrid sage, I run out of force very quickly and very often in warzones. To say that force is not an effective resource system because hybrids do not run out of force is incorrect.

Deliverance (our "big heal") is far more force-efficient than Benevolence (our "small heal"), but the long cast time (base 3 second, talented 2.5 second before alacrity) makes it quite difficult to use in PvP situations because it is difficult to interrupt and does not heal much damage. I use Deliverance primarily when there is no one around, but for some reason I find myself stuck in combat.

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.24.2012 , 08:25 PM | #358
Quote: Originally Posted by Acyu View Post
500k/300k is really not possible.
I'm not going to say it's common. There's people that have gotten 900k damage before, too. Saw a Jedi Guardian do 400k damage and 300k protection, etc.

I rarely actually see anyone get above 400k damage, without protection or healing. But I do think Sorc/Sage needs tweaking to their hybrid build, regardless of any hearsay or screenshots.

bellok's Avatar


bellok
02.24.2012 , 08:27 PM | #359
Quote: Originally Posted by Visue View Post
I've never played a mercenary, so I'm afraid can't comment on that.

I do know that as a TK/Balance hybrid sage, I run out of force very quickly and very often in warzones. To say that force is not an effective resource system because hybrids do not run out of force is incorrect.

Deliverance (our "big heal") is far more force-efficient than Benevolence (our "small heal"), but the long cast time (base 3 second, talented 2.5 second before alacrity) makes it quite difficult to use in PvP situations because it is difficult to interrupt and does not heal much damage. I use Deliverance primarily when there is no one around, but for some reason I find myself stuck in combat.
You are correct, force actually runs out pretty quick while healing as a hybrid healer sage. Usually what I have to do to regenerate my force is to actually spam telekinetic throw because it regens my force. It's comical actually. Oh you mean I ran out of force? Fine I'll go kill some people for a while then......

bellok's Avatar


bellok
02.24.2012 , 08:29 PM | #360
Quote: Originally Posted by savionen View Post
I'm not going to say it's common. There's people that have gotten 900k damage before, too. Saw a Jedi Guardian do 400k damage and 300k protection, etc.

I rarely actually see anyone get above 400k damage, without protection or healing. But I do think Sorc/Sage needs tweaking to their hybrid build, regardless of any hearsay or screenshots.
sure, but not in the way you think of it. All that needs to happen is for force lightning/telekinetic throw to fill up resolve bar, thus giving the target a chance to get away at least from the slow movement and slow channeling. The continuous damage needs to stay at least.